> chat > 2000-8-30

Chat for 2000-8-30 21:00:00

james: morning :)
changed username to rich-c
rich-c: well, hello!
rich-c: good to see you here so promptly, james
james: how's everyone?
Rich Drushel: Hi everyone.
Rich Drushel: Richard, did your $$$ arrive?
rich-c: I'm doing fine - guess Dr.D is checking his email
rich-c: rich, yes, it came yesterday morning
rich-c: I'd have told you but the day was mildly fraught
james: anyone want some 30c weather?
rich-c: now I've got to go undertake the Great Excavation for teh next two
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dale
Dale: Hi all.
rich-c: james, your shipment of 30 weather arrived yesterday
Rich Drushel: Ours is probably around 30 C here in is sweltering.
Dale: I was just playing around with the AdamServe source a little.
rich-c: Hi Dale, warm enough for you?
Dale: I'm scorched!
rich-c: scorched or dripping?
Dale: My last place had an air conditioner. This place? No such luck.
rich-c: maybe you'd better get yourself one soon
Rich Drushel: Which part of the source, Z80 or x86?
Dale: I was about to try the Z80 source...
Dale: to see if it would all work under my Linux based corss assembler.
Dale: And then I noticed it was 9.
Rich Drushel: Hope you find it understandable...the fine points of the conditional assembly stuff are detailed in all the README files.
Dale: I've convinced myself that the summer is almost over.
Rich Drushel: Our summer has been over for a week, if you look at the trees: all the oaks are starting to turn brown, and some of the maples red.
rich-c: or maybe just arrived, considering what July and August were like
Dale: I've finally figured out that I downloaded the readme files in the zips and out loose.
Rich Drushel: Yes, I put the READMEs in both places, one to be sure they'd stay with the appropriate source, but the other so you could read without having to unpack it all.
rich-c: they say we're supposed to have a warm dtry fall - hope they heard that in Halifax
james: it's been summer here since may and likely will be until october.
Dale: I was thinking of making a Windows based standard installer, if I can figure out what the procedures should be.
rich-c: maybe you should do it under 3.1, Dale, in case the server is - let's say, obsolescent?
Rich Drushel: My evening was spent setting up a Quadra 840 AV for my kids...castoffs from CWRU. But it plus the LaserWriter 630 Pro and my UMAX scanner make a nice system.
rich-c: Quadra? That's about an AT equivalent, isn't it?
Rich Drushel: Install would be easy if I didn't precompile everything.
Rich Drushel: Quadra is a 68040...the 840 is 40 MHz. This one has 64MB RAM and 2 230MB hard disks, plus old-style CD drive (with the removable caddy). It does TV in and out; I used it to make part of my graphics demo for ADAMcon 10.
Dale: Well, we'll see what I end up with, but I think that InstallSheild has a 16-bit option.
rich-c: right - that's like a high end 486 then
Rich Drushel: Speed-wise, it seems to perform as well as my 486DX2-66 system with WinNT4.0 and 32MB RAM.
Dale: I've never used Windows 3.1 so I'm not very familiar with it.
Rich Drushel: It's funny to read alt.folklore.computers these days and read people pining for Win3.1...
Rich Drushel: Personally OS/2 was the "better DOS than DOS"...
rich-c: well, it is a bit simpler and maybe a hair less crash-prone
james: rich-c, just got your e-mail :) thanks!
Rich Drushel: The ADAMserve protocol was debugged in real time using the server side on OS/2 Warp and a neat program which displayed all the stuff going in and out the serial port in a window.
Dale: My theory is "you can always do it the hard way", so making an easier way for some users is at least somewhat useful.
Rich Drushel: Oh I don't disagree...
rich-c: yes, Dale, never 8underestimate how dumb us users can be
rich-c: bet there isn't a program around I can't crash without even trying
Rich Drushel: I are a brane, C me thimk...
Rich Drushel: :-)
Dale: I haven't done a manual install quite yet, so I haven't decided if it is useful, etc.
rich-c: Rich, how much overlap of the Z80 instruction set is there in the x86 Intel processors?
Rich Drushel: BTW, if anybody ever wants to make a Win32 version of ADAMserve, Sydex will license a set of DLLs for unlimited use after a one-time payment...but they don't say how much that is; you have to contact them. That would at least have hopes of allowing the ADAM floppy disk I/O to work in a non-DOS environment.
Dale: Did they make 22disk?
Rich Drushel: What do you mean by overlap, Richard? There are functional equivalents for the instructions, but there is no binary compatibility.
rich-c: I think that tells me what I wanted to know
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Guy B.
Rich Drushel: Yes Dale, Sydex made 22disk. They have yanked Anadisk, though, and will sell it only to law enforcement types (because it can be used to break copy protection schemes involving hairbrained formatting tricks). I think that the old DOS version is on the CP/M CD-ROM, or on the mirrors.
Guy B.: Greetings!!!
james: morning, guy :)
rich-c: Hello, Guy; you're late again
Rich Drushel: Hi Guy...did you ever try my ADAMserve patch for SmartFiler?
Guy B.: Rich, you might as well get use to it. I'm still working overtime and by the time I get home I have to feed and walk the dog.
rich-c: What CP/M CD-ROM, Dale?
Dale: Hi Guy
Rich Drushel: In 1994 someone put all the old CP/M archives on a CD-ROM. Sold it for $40, I believe. I bought one.
Dale: Available from (the folks at Walnut Creek).
Guy B.: Rich. D. I was going to last Sunday until my mom called and I had to rush to her house. The freezer shut itself down due to the thick and I mean thick ice. Took me an hour and a half to do. I will try it this weekend.
rich-c: OK - what's it good for in an Adam context?
Rich Drushel: The cover art for the disk jewel box had a little portable like Neil's TRS unit with built-in screen.
Rich Drushel: ADAM context: great if you have an 80-column terminal for TDOS. Otherwise, maybe not so easy to use.
Dale: It contains tonnes of CP/M software.
james: i'll be back in a little while.
rich-c: Reminds me - the paper had a picture of the guy who did the Promis security software
Rich Drushel: Off to class, James...catch you later.
Guy B.: OK James. Don't take too long.
rich-c: it showed his current (!) computer in the background - name on it was Wang!!!
james: thanks. yeah i woke up late so i have to get ready. should be back in a little while, hopefully some people will still be around.
rich-c: hope so, james
james: count on me by 12:10 (11:10 pm est) cheers :)
rich-c: c u
james: *up, up and away..*
Guy B.: Have a good day James.
james left chat session
Dale: So if you looked at last week's transcript, Scott Gordon finally made it on.
rich-c: I'm not sure James is getting what he needs for his ambitions with Logo
Rich Drushel: Yes, I saw that (Scott, that is).
Guy B.: Well, I'm closing my Yahoo e-mail address this weekend and all e-mail from there will go to Netzero. I downloaded the software for my desktop and found a real close number to me and Netscape is setup for it.
rich-c: Yes, what's with Scott these days? I admit I haven't looked yet
Dale: He and I are going to try to work together for some project for the Adam.
Rich Drushel: Re: James and LOGO, should I embark on a disassembly for him? I think he had the idea of being able to translate the keywords into Japanese, yes?
rich-c: Sheesh, Guy, I still have you at
Dale: Scott is quite busy. He has classes, and work as I understand it, as well as the rest of his life.
Rich Drushel: Would be nice to just change the strings to the phonetic representation.
Guy B.: That's gone. He shut down over six months ago. Either use or
moved to room Meeting Place
rich-c: I don't think he's concerned about doing the translation - he's already through chapter 2 of the manual
changed username to Ron
Dale: Hi ron.
Guy B.: Hi Ron.
Ron: Hello All!
Ron: and how's the world?
rich-c: Hey Ron - good to see you
Guy B.: Using the iMac or the PC tonight?
Ron: iMac.... so if I disappear into the ether... I'll be back
Rich Drushel: Manual is one thing, but the keywords in the program are another...unless he's assuming that all his students know enough English to deal with it.
Dale: He plans to do the manual first.
rich-c: Anyway, Rich, I think what he needs is a disassembly; he wants to add an "edchar" command
Rich Drushel: Ron missed me telling about setting up a Quadra 840 AV system here at home tonight for the girls...
Ron: what processor is in that one Rich?
Dale: Rich, if you program in any language they are English centric really.
Ron: 68040?
Rich Drushel: Surely someone has done that disassembly before, for some newsletter?
Ron: you guys talking about LOGO?
rich-c: yep
Ron: re disassembly, no I don't think it's ever been done
Dale: I've really never spotted one, but I was never much of a newsletter subscriber.
Rich Drushel: Ron, it's a 68040, 40 MHz, 64 MB RAM, 4 MB VRAM, 17" monitor...really nice...thrown out by our glorious CWRU.
Ron: Aha. faster than my LC 475 and more RAM and certainly more VRAM
Rich Drushel: Works nice attached to this LaserWriter 630 Pro with 32 MB RAM and 600 dpi :-)
Ron: Sure would like to know where the screen formatting addresses are in LOGO
Rich Drushel: Another castoff...
Ron: like setting left, right, top and bottom margins
rich-c: Rich, if they ever toss another out or just teh 68040 chip, we could use it
Ron: yes... I'm seeing a better brand of MAC being donated to the hospital here where we do some tech support for the patientsw
Ron: patients
Ron: used to be just Se
Rich Drushel: <HUNCH>Betcha SmartLOGO uses the EOS console driver which case, all those are global variables in EOS RAM, documented in the source code listing.
Rich Drushel: </HUNCH>
Ron: SE's. now we're getting Quadra and up
Rich Drushel: Since SmartLOGO is a 32x23 program.
Dale: I really doubt it, since it is allways in full screen graphics mode with the graphics overlayed over the text.
rich-c: what is a "32 x 23" program?
Ron: Could be Rich, but I know at one point I was trying to protect a certain area of the screen for
Rich Drushel: I still have 3 Centris 650s (25 MHz, 12MB RAM) sitting in the robot lab...
Ron: wordprocessor I was endeavouring to write, and I could get the bottom squared away fine, but not the top
Ron: kept scrolling up
Ron: Despite having several books describing the various models of MAC that were produced, I still get confused
Rich Drushel: Well...should I spend a few weeks disassembling SmartLOGO? TWWMCA readers, what do you want to read about?
moved to room Meeting Place
Guy B.: At least the colors are confusing anymore.
rich-c: Ask James when he comes back - my guess is yes
Dale: Rich have you picked a hotel for the next 'Con yet?
Guy B.: That's aren't
changed username to WBurnside
Ron: I would sure like that Rich
Dale: Hi WB.
WBurnside: Hello All !
Rich Drushel: The Quadra 840 is a tower system. The Centris was in the desktop-type case.
Guy B.: Hello WB, How are you doing tonight?
rich-c: Hello Willie, once again!
WBurnside: I am doing well !
Ron: hey VB
Ron: or is it WB?
rich-c: You andGuy managed to get together yet?
Rich Drushel: Re: next ADAMcon, no, because with the start of classes here, I have been unable to schedule a night to meet with HLM-GMK. That will probably happen in the next couple weeks, though.
WBurnside: WB
Guy B.: Not yet.
rich-c: Just keep an eye on the menu -I don't think everyone quite matches Herman's tastes
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron
Ron: oh here we go... multiple personalities again
Guy B.: Ron's got the PC up.
Dale: Ron did you get bumped once already?
WBurnside: Guy B, Do you have any interest in teaching computers for a university ?
Ron: no... still the iMac, but somehow I'm logged in twice
Rich Drushel: One consideration for hotel is proximity to CWRU (which is a tall order, not a lot of choices), because I'd like to have a field trip down to the robot lab. There also is no "close" visitor parking, so people with trouble getting around like the Stones would have some problems, I think.
Ron: Where's the net administrator when we ned him?
Guy B.: Do you need a degree? I only have a Associates, but I'm an experience Cobol programmer.
Rich Drushel: But I think people would like to see the robot lab and the slug lab...
Ron: guess I'm gonna hafta either spruce up my tin can and string connection or blow the budget and buy ShaW@home
rich-c: Judging by the reaction when you brought to robot to the convention, you're likely right
Dale: Oh yeah, Rich, I think that I know why you loose track of the converstion once a week.
rich-c: you got DSL out there yet, Ron?
WBurnside: Usually you need a master's degree, but that can be wavied depending on the experience level of the individual ?
Rich Drushel: It would also be fun to have the Saturday-night chat at the lab, because of all the networked computers :-)
Ron: yes, Rich -C but only for those who live within certain proximity of the Telus plant
rich-c: Sounds like fun
Dale: If you use the Java applet and scroll up, then click on the text history area.
Ron: And they don't advertise it
Dale: What happens is that the window stops scrolling automatically until ...
rich-c: Ah - here they're really pushing it, as you'd expect
Guy B.: I don't even have a Bachelor's, but I'm working towards one whenever I get a chance to resume the courses I'm on and I'm might explore trying Windows NT networking.
Ron requested to ban Ron
WBurnside: Guy B, do you have any experience with MS Word and Works ?
Ron confirmed ban
Dale confirmed ban
rich-c confirmed ban
Ron: Hey! I deleted my alter ego
Ron: All that's left is anti-matter now
Guy B.: Dale, did you put that question up?
Rich Drushel: CWRU actually has competitive rates for summer rental of the dorms for conferences etc., but I'm absolutely certain that nobody wants to spend 5 days in Cleveland in July in a dorm with no air conditioning :-) :-) :-)
rich-c: right guess, Rich
Ron: too bad Rich d but I suspect you're right
Dale: you click in that area, and hold down the down arrow, until window gets to the bottom. It should start tracking again.
Rich Drushel: Frankly, everybody is too old and well-travelled to want to put up with dorm accommodations ;-)
Ron: I have done it at various times in various places, but....
rich-c: ou're catching on to us, Rich
rich-c: of course if they've got a hookup spot for our trailer...
Dale: Ron put up the delet second Ron question.
Ron: You could always bill it as "The U of ADAM"
Rich Drushel: I suspect I would have to give out a lot of financial aid to get the first graduating class :-)
Ron: 4 days to a degree in ADAMology
Dale: Some MTAG members were promoting the idea of staying on a local campus, for similar reasons.
Ron: a Masters' at that
rich-c: In fact, is CWRU one of the ones that does provide RV spaces for students?
Dale: But in the end it just didn't seem right for us.
Ron: You gonna show us some slugs Rich d?
rich-c: no, parking on campus is too much of an issue
Rich Drushel: RV spaces, as in, if you come to school with an RV, you can park it and live in it instead of in a dorm? Absolutely no way...
Dale: Well, for 16 people you could at least price a shuttle.
Rich Drushel: Be glad to show some "ugly bags of mostly water" (bonus points if you know what that quote is from).
Dale: More Hitchhiker refrences?
Ron: um.... no... it's either sci-fi or biology I'd expect
Rich Drushel: Passenger vans in the 9-16 capacity range were $30 per van one-way when we priced them for moving our robot class students down town to the Great Lakes Science Center, for the Egg Hunt this past spring.
rich-c: I'd say Rachel Carson but I don';t think her sense of humour was up to it
Ron: oH yeaeah... that fifth rate planet that was scheduled for demolition
Ron: to make room for something???
Dale: How 'bout a hyperspace bypass?
Ron: yeah that was it
Rich Drushel: No, 1st-season Star Trek-The Next Generation...the episode on the terraforming planet where there were semiconductor beings living in the soil.
Rich Drushel: "Ugly bags of mostly water" was how they described humans.
rich-c: pity james is away - he'd have nailed that one
Ron: never saw it... but then I wasn't into Next Generation until much later
Rich Drushel: At least that's how the Universal Translator rendered it.
Dale: Gotcha, Mostly accurate though.
Rich Drushel: The semiconductors didn't want the planet to be terraformed, because that would destroy their environment. The terraformers had thought that the planet was devoid of life, but they weren't clever enough to look for the kind that was there already.
Ron: I have no knowledge of these thing
Ron: s
Ron: story of our lives
rich-c: I'm not sure I like the idea of silicon-based life forms
Ron: what Pamela Anderson Lee?
rich-c: too many brainy pieces of silicon wandering about already
Dale: LOL
Rich Drushel: ROTFL
Ron: actually, she's from Comox here
Rich Drushel: Just remember, silicon is not the same as silicone.
(A dog howls in the distance)
Ron: of ccourse, how silly of me
(Guy B. winks)
Rich Drushel: Must be Guy :-)
Guy B.: My dog is in the kitchen lying down. All quiet.
Ron: So anyway.... I'm trying to figure a way of getting iMac here into a suitcase for Cleveland next year
Ron: bit large for a laptop
rich-c: drive down, Ron, then you won't have to worry about it
Rich Drushel: Trade it for an iBook?
Ron: both valid alternatives
Dale: I've been working on a game I call "Lemons". I have a Web version with 2 levels ready at
Ron: was thinking of driving
Ron: could pick up anybody west of Cleveland
Guy B.: What is the object of the game?
Ron: but I dunno
rich-c: wonder if Zonker would come if he got a lift?
Rich Drushel: I have a couple of PowerBook 5300s and a couple of PowerBook 1400s that we use only "on remote" at the Egg Hunt; I could bring you one to use...
Dale: It is similar to Lemmings.
Dale: If you know that one.
Ron: Only trouble is that Zonker is probably faced with time constraints
Ron: whereas I am not
rich-c: Dale's Amiga days are coming back to haunt us
Guy B.: You're right up my alley. I have three Lemming games, so it should be about the same then.
Ron: Are lemmings like tribbles?
Dale: If I make up a bunch of levels, I could also make a version of the Adam, I suppose.
Dale: Basically the Lemons come one by one, and follow the most obvious path available to them.
Rich Drushel: What is Zonker up to these days? He's been pretty quiet lately. Hope he doesn't think we're mad at him or something for not making this summer's convention...
rich-c: think it might take a few too many sprites for the Adam screen
Rich Drushel: That's why there's sprite multiplexing software in OS-7...just think "Burger Time".
Ron: Last I spoke with venerable Zonk, he was drifting away from the group, was aware of it, and didn't think he'd be
Dale: You have the ability to make each of them build, or climb, etc...
Guy B.: Good question Rich? We should e-mail him to see what's he been up to.
Ron: coming to Toronto.... which of course, he didn't
Ron: He left me a message saying that most of his hobbies these days took him farther and farther away from ADAM
Dale: and your goal is to rescue as many as possible. The only problem is that if you're not careful, they'll all plummit to their deaths.
Ron: But he is well, and a grandfather
Ron: zonker seems too young to be a grandfather
Rich Drushel: Well, things happen...
Guy B.: Just like Lemmings. You have to guide them out. Lemmings aren't very bright.
rich-c: what is it the sociologists say? All hoobies last about ten years?
Ron: well then I'm five years past the time to leave
rich-c: er, hobbies
Dale: Uh oh. That's a bad sign for all of us.
Rich Drushel: I thought that was some tribe that Margaret Mead lived with for 30 years, the Hoobies :-)
Ron: Some nights I could seriously reduce the number of computing devices in this room to zero
rich-c: with a high explosive...
Ron: yes
Ron: Seems like every time I give one away I get 5 back
rich-c: I admit my fascination with the Adam is not what it was five years ago
Ron: like tribbles
rich-c: and definitely not what it was ten years ago
Rich Drushel: Well, this is year #12 of having an ADAM in my house, year #15 of having worked with them.
Ron: ADAM still has things I want to do..... like write just ONE functionning program in SmartBASIC 1.X
Ron: It sits here at the ready, waiting, hooked to my piano keyboard and my 386 ADAMServe unit
rich-c: I think we're in year 15, still use it, and don't plan to stop using it
Rich Drushel: I wrote a new one just this spring, to control a scoreboard for our robot Egg Hunt. The competition 10-minute timer is also a SB1.x program, written 4.5 years ago.
Dale: This is year 15 of having an Adam for me. But I suppose that I now use my laptop more than anything else for computing needs right now.
Rich Drushel: I guess I should post the source code for these.
Ron: Well there ya go
Ron: Maybe in my next life I'll be a programmer
Rich Drushel: Where else can you get good graphics for a 25-inch monitor?
rich-c: Yes, most of our time is on the DOSbox (y.v.t.) and Amiga (Frances)
Ron: And then of course there's the MIC compiler, and my notes from Dale's sessions which need followup
Ron: and on and on... and I still want to write a LOGO wordprocessor
Ron: just for the hell of it
Guy B.: My expansion Adam is 16 years old and still is going fine. Even though I haven't used it very much lately.
rich-c: I know Michael still plays Colecovision games
Ron: me too Guy. About the same age. It's also an expansion module, and it's set up just for TDOS
Ron: Without a word of a lie people, just about everything I want to learn about computing these days is do-able on the ADAM
WBurnside: the problem is that the world demand faster, more powerful machines to do the samll tasks the 8-bitters had done only faster
Dale: Concerning games, etc. The new site I just added to the Adam Pointers Page is
Guy B.: I did have two data drives, but the second one I took out, since that rubber wheel thing just litterly melted away.
rich-c: Didn't one of the Walters make his own chip that automatically booted in TRDOS?
Ron: but somehow I spend most of my time with the flashy visual stuff
Dale: Some interesting stuff there.
Ron: No that was Tony Morehen
Ron: he simply replaced the Smartwriter ROM
Guy B.: Jim Walters had a Smartbasic 1.0 cartridge.
rich-c: right - I remember now
Ron: Would like to how how an overlay is written
Ron: how do modem comms work?
rich-c: Jim also had an updated Smartwriter - 83 or 85 I believe
Ron: layout for a MIDI file
Ron: yada yada yada
Guy B.: He also wrote Adam's Desktop. That is a dandy program. I have it as a cart.
rich-c: what does it do, Guy?
WBurnside: Coleco once had its own magazine, does any one have an example of it/
rich-c: Coleco's own, or Family Computing?
Ron: Think it was Family Computing
WBurnside: Coleco's own
Dale: It was published quartery I think.
Ron: Which later became Family and Home Office Computing
rich-c: never heard of that, Willie
Dale: I don't rembmer if it lasted longer than 3 issues.
Guy B.: Well, basically you can copy your disks to the ramdrive using Jim's excellant Smartdsk system. You can boot disks with or without the ramdrive and boot Smartwriter with using a dot matrix printer.
Dale: I've seen it at least once. But I've never had one of my own.
Rich Drushel: A real multi-tasking ADAM would be possible if the memory bank switch ports were latched (that is, you could read them to find out what the last value written to them was). And also if everyone had at least 128K or XRAM (so you could ignore the first 64K XRAM that SmartWriter and other programs take over). But the likelihood of getting that much new hardware out into circulation is very small...probably the only way to do it is by adding those features to ADAMem.
Guy B.: It's also a copy utility and you can setup multiple boot programs on disk. The latter I've never tried.
rich-c: yes, the days of teh basement breadboard seem to be long gone
rich-c: still, maybe Ron could figure something out with pushpins
Ron: :)
Ron: comment noted :)
Rich Drushel: I face this problem daily in my research programming: there are lots of programs I can write, but I have long since passed the stage where just writing a program that does what I told it to is satisfying: I also want it to be *right*. In my slug modelling, if it isn't sufficiently *right*, I don't want to spend any time writing it. "It does what I asked but not what I want" is no fun any more.
moved to room Meeting Place
moved to room Meeting Place
Dale: I was looking this week at the Zilog site.
Ron: like I keep telling Bob S., given my ability with a soldering gun, puspins are a serious option
Guy B.: Agree with you on that Rich.
changed username to Colecoguy
Dale: I Michael.
Ron: I hear ya Rich
Guy B.: Mike, you made it tonight.
rich-c: Oh, here's Michael - tho8ught you were up north?
Colecoguy: Hello All just arrived in the door
Dale: Can you fax me now?
Dale: Hello Michael.
Rich Drushel: Does Zilog even acknowledge the Z80? For a few years they were trying to pooh-pooh it.
Ron: That's a good way to come in Colecoguy. The wall is usually unforgiving
Dale: Everything is Z80-centric.
Colecoguy: Dale give me a break I just got in the door
Rich Drushel: Heh heh, last time I looked they were pushing Z8s.
Dale: The latest craze is the eZ80 which is an enhanced Z80 that goes up to 80MHz...
Dale: and is used in the newish Gameboy Color
Guy B.: When did that come out Dale?
Dale: (which runs the old Game Boy games, since it is Z80 based).
Rich Drushel: Hope it's not like the Z280 which had separate code and data segments, and would not let you use self-modifying code...
Ron: BRB
Dale: It also allows for up to 16MB of memory mapped RAM.
Colecoguy: I thought I would join in on the chat and i will get to the newsletter tomorrow and want to finish it and print it then you can photo copy it Dale ??
Dale: It has a 100% Z80 mode.
Ron: Is Zilog still making Z80's??
rich-c: I keep seeing Z80s in all sorts of applications; modems, graphics boards (I think), etc.
Colecoguy: yes Ron
Ron: cool
Dale: Can you fax me what you have so far, so I can give you some feedback before you finish?
Rich Drushel: Well, gimme an ADAM with eZ80...but how do you emulate all the memory-map bank switching?
Colecoguy: Dale it's thrity pages//
Dale: Z80s (and Z180, Z380 and eZ80s) are widely used for embedded applications such as traffic light controllers.
Rich Drushel: Who is our friend <undefined>? Hello, whoever you are.
Colecoguy: I can fax it but just give me a sec so I can figure it out whats the fax number?
Dale: No problem Michael.
Dale: It is my voice number 225-5884.
Dale: Rich, I think that it is a ghost of Colecoguy.
Colecoguy: what is the fax number
Dale: My fax machine is hooked up to 225-5884.
Ron: Spaniel works better in 640x480 on this beast...
Colecoguy: OK dale hold on a sec and Ill try and send it now
left chat session
Rich Drushel: The ghost has been laid...
rich-c: looks like we lost Michael's ghost
Guy B.: Amen
Ron: ok
Colecoguy: ya that was me Rich I had two windows opened Opps
rich-c: thought it was some stray evagelist looking for Eve
Ron: what's an evagelist/
Ron: ?
Dale: So as a result the Z80 and related chips are sold in volunes of more than about 2 million a year.
rich-c: farn dingers
Ron: someone who evagelates?
Rich Drushel: Let's not go there, Ron...
Ron: no I don't suppose
rich-c: some of us aren't touch typists
rich-c: and besides, we don't have the advantage of the Adam keyboard
Rich Drushel: Well, good for Zilog...some defense against the Intel-Motorola hegemony!
Dale: So anyway, I'm still thinking about a faster Adam. And what that would really mean.
Colecoguy: Dale where is the fax install for win98
Colecoguy: ??
Ron: Let me give you a parallel
rich-c: what are the implications of an 80 mhz chip for cartridge games?
Ron: CMD (who makes hardware for the C64/128)
Ron: recently devised a 20MHZ accelerator for the C128
Guy B.: Michael, try looking under Accessaries.
Ron: and the C64
Ron: Nobody bought it
Rich Drushel: No problem as long as you have a 50.60 Hz NMI.
Dale: I dodn't remember exactly.
Ron: except for a very few diehards
Ron: It retailed for about $250
Rich Drushel: oops, that was supposed to be 50/60 Hz NMI.
Rich Drushel: That's the timebase interrupt frequency which the cartridge games use.
Colecoguy: I'm here but I amy have to reset the machine after I install it!
Dale: Yeah, properly written games (ie ones that follow my technique taught at AdamCon 11) should be fine.
Guy B.: Yes, you might have to so the registry gets updated. We'll be here when you get back.
Rich Drushel: Chairman Bill says: insert credit card in Drive A: and strike any key when ready...
(Guy B. laughs heartily)
Dale: The timer interrupt technique works on the space probes, and Donkey Kong.
Ron: I have pretty much resigned myself to the fact that no matter what computer I buy, new or used, I will be 5 years behind
Ron: the times
rich-c: any that aren't, aren't on sale yet
Guy B.: Well, I be able to catch up by this time next year.
Ron: And that's ok
rich-c: I have the feeling my 166MMX is about to fall off the trailing edge
Ron: yes Rich C, and that's a diagnostic statement of the truth
Guy B.: Same for my 133. I plan to get a new system by next summer.
Dale: The realy trick is that a faster Z80 has been available for many years. For example 8MHz, 12MHz and 16MHz Z80s.
Ron: are they well documented?
rich-c: yes, I remember hearing talk of them
Ron: like as to i/o requirements..... timing and that sort of stuff?
rich-c: there has always been an undercurrent in the Adam community wondering about the faster chip possibilities
Guy B.: Michael will be back. He has to reboot his system to install Microsoft Fax.
Dale: So, the real trick is that all of the Adam support chips, RAM, etc. are already slower than the CPU.
moved to room Meeting Place
Ron: remember that very subject coming up at the 2nd ADAM meeting I attended back when the earth was flat
changed username to Rich Drushel
rich-c: looks like Michael's back
Rich Drushel: Okay, my phone line got disconnected--teenager interrupt.
Dale: So to replace the CPU means that I'd need to do something about the RAM and then something about the VDP and joystick controllers...
Rich Drushel: Christina picked up the receiver, and the modem panicked.
Ron: Somebody wanted to build an ADAM around the Z180
Guy B.: Who was it Rich? Elanor or Christina?
Ron: with daughters, you have to expect teenager interrupt
Rich Drushel: Does TI have any descendents of the TMS9928?
rich-c: I believe I've read about some
Dale: and of course the ADAMnet DMA.
rich-c: in fact, wasn't Gary Bowser using one ?
Rich Drushel: oops, that's descendants
Rich Drushel: *Currently available* descendants...
Dale: Rich, there are many decendents of the TMS9928, including the one in the AIM board (which runs at 21MHz)...
Dale: and one made by Yamaha which includes a VGA mode.
Rich Drushel: Get 'em quick, because HD-TV will make NTSC video go away...
Ron: And what about the SNC sound chip?
Rich Drushel: Unless there is something which is programmed like the 9928 but puts out SVGA.
Dale: So there are lots of potiential roadblocks.
Rich Drushel: Linux board in an ADAM box is looking not so silly...
rich-c: won't VGA do? a 640 x 480 screen seems fine
Ron: Think we need to establish a research centre
Dale: That's why I was suggesting to switch to USB.
Ron: hire on everyone who is now or is potentially interested in ADAM
Ron: pay them well, and do this
rich-c: do I hear vinny calling?
Ron: We'll buy up CWRU and convert it
Rich Drushel: We can do *anything* if we forego backward compatibility with existing application binaries...but then who will write the new 2.0 versions?
Rich Drushel: Everyone wants PowerPaint and TDOS.
Ron: Offer Sol Swift a signing bonus
rich-c: but if we forge backward compatibility, is it still an Adam?
Rich Drushel: PJ says he doesn't even know how he did what he did...
Ron: :)
rich-c: Tony Morehen seemed to understand his approach
Dale: So it turns out that the 9958 puts out NTSC speed RGB signals but the Yamaha chip (which may still be available) can output SVGA signals.
Ron: Alls he did was write basic routines laced with ML
Dale: So, says the Zen Monk, what is an Adam?
Rich Drushel: ADAMnet-to-USB converter seems okay to me. Existing software still sees ADAMnet, outside can be USB.
rich-c: more to the point, at what stage does it stop being an Adam?
Dale: His approach is to write simple modules, one at a time, hand assemble, poke into memory and save the block to the hard disk.
Dale: What you end up with is hard to maintain or enhance, but easy enough to write.
Ron: An ADAM is a computing device of known origin and construction that offers a particular look, feel, and interface to about
Ron: 40 users
Ron: worldwide
Rich Drushel: Do you want museum curator's definition? That is stock-only is the true ADAM, everything else must be removed.
Ron: we retain that look and feel and we have an ADAM
Rich Drushel: With alternate keycaps, ADAMem then does a pretty good job.
rich-c: I think you're heading in the right direction, Ron
Dale: Hmmm...two contradictory definitions. Oh no!
Ron: As far as software goes, I'd like to make a long long list of things about ADAM software that can be improved
Dale: Yeah, Ron, I haven't seen such a list from you in ages.
Ron: indeed
Guy B.: A better word processor. In a way like MS Word.
rich-c: I think Dale is hinting for an ANN article
Rich Drushel: What would help is a standard library for SmartKey menus, dialog screens, text I/O, etc. So everyone doesn't have to invent all that stuff over and over and over again.
Dale: I was inspired by your session talking about such at AC3, i beleive.
Ron: I know. it IS going to happen....I've paid my dues now I have to contribute
Ron: need some priorities around here
Dale: Rich, I have written such a SmartKey library for Z80 assembly. I would be willing to build up more.
Rich Drushel: I know you have the SK library, Dale. That's why I mentioned it. I have all the low-level device I/O stuff (disks, serial ports, etc.).
Dale: Also, any new "Adam" would have to be at least as backward compatible with Adam software as AdamServe is (preferably more so).
Ron: And there's the start. The thing about ADAM software is that it has to LOOK like ADAM Smartkeys
moved to room Meeting Place
Ron: and begin with the ADAM logo, etc
Dale: Rich, I have always said I'd be happy to share my code with anyone interested.
changed username to Colecoguy
rich-c: now Michael's back
Dale: Hi Michael.
Dale: No luch on the faxing yet, eh?
Ron: What's this about Michael's back?
Rich Drushel: I'm out of EOS RAM to make the ADAM side of the emulator better. I know how to write a "perfect" ADAMnet emulator; I just can't keep it in 8K with all the rest of the stuff that has to go in there. That's the really frustrating thing.
rich-c: Dale, maybe you two should get together and put all your fundamentals on a CD-ROM
Colecoguy: Dale No luck I'll try in the am to send it to you...
WBurnside: Would there be any copyright issues ? Who owns the Coleco Adam name and logo
Dale: <grin> I feel deja-vu about that rich-c.
Rich Drushel: And to reverse-engineer all the apps so they don't assume they have up to E000H...ick.
Ron: It's a valid question WB.
rich-c: the question is, does the copyright owner know? and if so, does it care?
Colecoguy: And I need to go.... So I'll see you next week
Ron: Does any copyright owner REMEMBER?
Guy B.: Well, I'm going to go. Got to check the e-mail. See you all next week.
rich-c: bye Michael - call me before you go north - I'm going away too
Rich Drushel: I'm sure they don't care, but if anything new became popular, they would care.
Rich Drushel: Bye Michael.
Dale: Noone seems to really know who owns the Coleco Adam name and logo. It was sold to someone when the Coleco assets were liquidated.
Ron: yes...
WBurnside: if there is money to be made, it is amazing how much one can care
Colecoguy left chat session
Ron: suppose we build a new ADAM, and they came to buy it.... then we'd hear from a lawyer or two
Guy B. left chat session
rich-c: Of course you're right, Willie, and the point fusses us
Ron: ok.... specification follows
Ron: It has to be laptop size
Dale: Neil asked USA Telegames (who bought the Colecovision and cart distribution rights), but they didn't feel they owned it...
Ron: It has to be capable of working the internet graphically
Ron: so I don't have to bring my iMAC
rich-c: My guess is that Hasbro got it with their purchase of most of Coleco's assets
Dale: Commodore was interested in the Laserdisc addon module which played the coin-op version of Dragon's Lair on the Adam.
Rich Drushel: So, let's call it something further down the Adam about "Seth"? :-)
rich-c: I think they would be very fussed about the Coleco(vision) name - but Adam?
Ron: Seth is good. I like Seth
Dale: So they may have bought it. Coleco has a 2 year exclusive on a port to the home computer market.
Ron: reminds me of a line of reading I did once
Rich Drushel: Or "Amahd".
Ron: back when I was able to read
WBurnside: Hasbro is more interested in releasing the old games in new bottles for the present and next generation of game machines and computers
Dale: Also IBM swooped in and bought some patents (if any) competing against Commodore.
rich-c: too much like Amstrad, of unhfortunate memory this side of the Atlantic
Ron: has a far eastern ring to it. Probably open to charges of domestic copyright infringement
Dale: Seth is okay.
Dale: Not completely obvious, but that's okay.
Rich Drushel: Abel, because it was murdered?
WBurnside: So Seth would have to sell extremely well for Hasbro to care
rich-c: Gotta suggest the parentage and that it's the next generation
Dale: Hasbro is quite generous about the Atari Jaguar system, making any development programs/docs public domain for example.
Ron: What were they going to call the second incarnation.... Goliath?
Ron: did that ever see the light of day?
rich-c: that's the popular rumour
Ron: probably Goliath was seen as somewhat confrontational
WBurnside: Hasbro gave up all claim to the Atari Jaguar
rich-c: see we've lost Dr. D - the buffer agagin?
Ron: Ok so who's got 20 million in capitalization?
WBurnside: that should ne any claim
Rich Drushel: No, I am here?
Ron: hell that wouldn't even buy us a building
rich-c: you don't show on the list
Rich Drushel: But I show in *my* list...sigh.
rich-c: hey, Ron, if Apple could start in a garage...
Ron: true
Ron: we could raise cash as a ''
WBurnside: securing the necessary VC funds would be difficult
rich-c: ask Dale, he's our resident expert on startups
Dale: No they bought the rights lock, stock and barrel. They jsut don't want to discourage those still interested in the old system.
Rich Drushel: You can etch and drill double-sided circuit boards in your garage. You need an expensive fab lab for modern 8-layer boards, surface mount components, etc. The world has changed.
Ron: indeed.
Dale: You can outsource everything, so right the world has changed.
rich-c: no more stick-in, stick-on
Ron: I have this feeling I'm stuck somewhere in Wonderland
rich-c: but how complex and "modern" a machine is needed, anyway?
Rich Drushel: Good, fast, cheap. Pick any two.
Dale: $20 million market cap? No problem. I create 1 million shares (which I pay $1 for), then sell one to one of you for $20.
Dale: The I take my new $20 million company public. <grin>
Ron: sounds too easy Dale, but it's happening around us even as we speak
Rich Drushel: Better ask Jill before you pull that stunt.
rich-c: Shhhh - she may be the buyer of that first share....
Dale: Well, my current company is going public next month.
Rich Drushel: "Going public" might turn into a public park bench, as in sleeping upon.
Ron: Buy an advertising campaign, put out word across the land that this fantastic new computer is coming
Ron: whip up public frenzy
Dale: The thing I left out is that it costs $500,000 in legal/accouting fees to do the take it public part.
Ron: yes... we must pay the lawyers
Ron: or shoot them
Dale: But just position it as a network appliance (which is hot right now), and you never know where you might end up.
rich-c: do we get to choose one of?
Rich Drushel: Pay 'em out, rather (as the British say).
Ron: better Dale
Dale: Think how happy Telegames would be to have a new market that wants to buy their games.
Ron: these days you have to have a business plan
Rich Drushel: But all they have are the binaries...surely they haven't got all the source code for these games? I'd be surprised if 5% of it has survived anywhere.
rich-c: especially if they were offered a piece of the action - for an appropriate price, of course
Ron: which usually involves a bank of some similar institution... as well as a lawyer
WBurnside: Unfortunately, the machine would have to be very different and far more powerful than anything else otherwise us lemmings may not follow
Ron: yes, what would our new Seth offer that is not currently available?
Dale: They bought all rights to the source code. They even wrote 2 or 3 games.
rich-c: Sure about that, Willie? I think there's a big market for simple
Dale: A business plan is easy for me to come up with. That's one of the things I do.
Rich Drushel: Bought all rights to the source code=the source code existed to be bought? Or was this a "just in case it ever surfaces".
Ron: Anybody who reads this transcript is going to wonder what we were on
Dale: Ron, it would be sold to a similar market as Web TV. A very hot and rapidly expanding market.
Ron: noted Dale
rich-c: no, those interested are hardened to our eccentricities
rich-c: Inspiration! Call it KISS
Ron: actually Dale, you have a point there..... those who haven't yet tried the Internet because it's too.... technical
WBurnside: Yes there is a market for simple, but without games it may fail. The IBM PC made it because of it's three initials, otherwise it my have flopped on it's face. The junior did
Dale: Get some angel capital from some big industry players.
rich-c: Make it crude as a Model T - any owner can fix it under the shade tree
Ron: Wouldn't it be something to get this idea off the ground!
Rich Drushel: But the ADAM was, arguably, from a technological standpoint, the Web TV of the went nowhere, though it could have become the basis for a desktop multimedia system 10 years before Wintel stumbled into one.
Dale: Of course buying the rights and actually obtianing all of the source aren't exactly the same thing.
rich-c: yes, but I don't think my business plan will work
rich-c: As in buy lotto ticket - wait - back to teh old drawing board
Ron: :) Rich-C you and I have more in common than I thought
Dale: So the problems with the Adam are: 1) terrible initial reviews 2) took more then the standard 2 year ROI (return on investment) to gow a critical mass of users.
rich-c: Or, rush to market, and be excessively greedy
Dale: If you consider that Phil Koczwara sais that they had a virtually 100% defect return rate on the first 50,000 Adams manufactured, you'll know what I mean.
Ron: exactly Dale plus... I think there was a move at that point (1984) to consolidate the market... and reduce the number
rich-c: Phil who?
Ron: of choices available
Ron: Phil Kozowski?
Ron: spelling?
rich-c: that's better
Ron: Well, we can dream
Ron: Think in practical terms, an investigation of what technical improvements might be possible using
rich-c: Really, is there any point in trying to out-Wintel Wintel?
Dale: In game developer circles they call it the "Shakeout Summer of '84" when the market was flooded with Atari 2600 games.
Ron: processor upgrades, etc as previously discussed
Ron: would be a good place to start
Rich Drushel: And I'm starting to do it at the's time to go to bed, for me anyhow. Good night, everybody.
Dale: Hmmm a bit of a malapropism, I guess.
rich-c: Night Rich, catch you next week
Ron: Night Rich D
WBurnside: goodnight all, I am off to Never-Never Land
Rich Drushel left chat session
rich-c: Come again soon, Willie
Ron: yup.. i'm going off to install a tape backup in a 386
WBurnside left chat session
Ron: because that' s the only place I have left for it
Dale: Wintel is not the only game in town. Look at the success of the Palm Pilot. There is space for competitors.
rich-c: not going to hang around till james comes back?
Ron: somebody gave me a tape backup... I already have 3
Ron: Oh is James going to return?
rich-c: he said he'd be back by 11.10 eastern
Dale: James is due back after class.
Ron: There had BETTER be space for competitors
Dale: But sometimes he misses us anyway.
Ron: oh ok, then I have all the time in the world
Ron: the tape backup can wait
rich-c: My own feeling is that any project starts from what's right about the Adam
Ron: Agree Rich.
rich-c: and thinks about the diehards of today's users
Ron: and there is lots
Ron: You were quite right
rich-c: the ones who are scared stiff of upgrading because they can't handle it - or don'tr want to
Dale: So what we need to put in a bottle is a list of what IS right about the Adam.
Ron: one can be up and writing with an ADAM before the Auto Exec has started exec'ing
rich-c: SmartWriter has pretty much all you need for basic work - just a little fine tuning would do
Dale: That is a good point. With a harddisk, anything boots in less than 5 sec.
rich-c: and what about having software on cartridges again?
rich-c: Maybe with two or three slots, for multitasking?
Ron: good
Dale: A nice 80 col version of SmartWRITER or a print preview would be good.
rich-c: Is it that much different in principle from swapping around CD-ROMs?
Dale: But don't you think that you need more fonts and headline sizes too?
rich-c: Why?
Ron: Agree Dale, I think any wordprocessor to be saleable has to show your your page as it's going to look in print
rich-c: OK, I know the answer, as Adam had them
Ron: yes..... when I try to get people interested here in ADAM or Commodore, the question of Fonts always comes up
rich-c: Yes, WYSIWYG is the only acceptable approach now
rich-c: Adam gave fonts by switching printwheels - todays printers do it differently, so accomodate them
Dale: It is just one of those cultural things. When typewriters were king, the Adam gave excellent output. But now it needs help.
Ron: and yet, of all the fonts you guys have available, how many do you actually use?
rich-c: What it really needs is more memory - for those fonts among other things
Ron: well, you can swap them in and out I think
Dale: Well, I use only a few in a given project, but a font family with multiple sizes is essential.
Ron: BRB (pit stop)
Dale: The more memory is no problem. The eZ80 has support for up to 16MB, which should be more than enough for the type of device I'm thinking of.
rich-c: Yes, maybe though one can lean on the printer?
rich-c: 16 meg would hold every program ever written for Adam, and the supporting dta files, I'd guess
Dale: Well, certain printers are really good about that, but most BubbleJet/InkJet printers need basically a bitmap to print.
Ron: You know something though, guys, we would really have to consider the 'mission' of this - whatever it is - we're proposing
rich-c: Isn't there some yestertech still around, with built-in fonts?
Ron: I look at the iMac here, and some nights it's not a computer really
Dale: Richard, you'd be suprised at how much stuff my Adam's harddisk contains.
Ron: it's an entertainment box. It plays music with better sound than anything else in the room
Ron: I go on the internet, and I look for whatever it is that I'm looking for
Dale: Well, an eZ80 could easily play MP3s.
Ron: and is that really computing as we understand it?
rich-c: Sure, but you're a developer, Dael. We're talking the basic user
Ron: I can light it up with all sorts of kaleidoscopic colours
Ron: and make it do MIDI from my piano
Ron: yada yada
Dale: So I'd put a 64MB solid state harddisk in it probably.
Dale: Most of the stuff is graphics or music related.
rich-c: Again, yes, some of that is needed I guess
Ron: exactly.... I don't think a pure text based computer would make it in this day and age
Dale: But what is webtv? It isn't a computer in the same sense as a Win98 or MacOS machine is.
Ron: David Cobley and I had a complete difference of philosophy as to what a computer was for
rich-c: No, one wants to cruise the net, and see movies and hear music
Ron: I see it as being something I can create with (whether that's writing an article or a program or a song)
Ron: and David saw it as being a way to communicate
rich-c: I suspect the question is, what level of sophistication are we after?
Dale: Hmm. I've always thought of it as a tool, like a pencil and paper.
Ron: it's both really
Dale: But that incorporates both explainations, I guess.
rich-c: Does it have to be able to edit photographs, or just scan and transmit them?
rich-c: Will the 9958 chip support up to 58K colours?
Ron: there would be some users who would be disappointed if it didn't
moved to room Meeting Place
rich-c: Sorry, 64K
changed username to james
Ron: Hi James
Ron: you're back
james: afternoon gents :)
rich-c: I bet that's james now
Ron: afternoon eh?
james: did i miss much? :D
Dale: The 9958 is no longer available.
james: it's too damn hot.
rich-c: welcome back, james. Woul;d you like a disassembly of LOGO?
Ron: heavy discussion on the purposes of computing, upgrades possible to the adam, not much
Dale: Loads. you'll have to read the transcript.
james: yes, i would love a dissasembly of logo!
rich-c: Dale will be posting the transcript anyway
james: i always check them out :)
rich-c: Dr.D suggested he'd be amenable to an approach
Dale: The sequel from Yamaha does do 64k color modes as far as I remember.
james: how have you been ron?
james: i may take him up on that. though i would like to got through the process myself too for the learning experience.
Ron: good James. Got your last message re Louis Fauteux
rich-c: And it's an Adam tradition to have separate video RAM anyway ;-)
james: it's too bad about him.
Ron: surprise.... he was about my age
Ron: which is way old of course
james: which if i recall is not *that* old :D
Ron: a few moons longer than some
rich-c: no, Ron's just getting into his prime
Ron: no I quit drinking Rich
james: my students call me old and i usually promptly correct them and threaten them with push-ups.
Ron: :)
james: i've made it through this week :() perhaps that calls for a toast.
Ron: So Japan is hot?
rich-c: tell them about your septaugenerian buddies
james: we've had maybe 2 days that have been under 30 since may 1st..
Ron: I don't do well in that
james: rich-c perhaps i will :D
Ron: Orlando was enough
james: neither do i and my school, having just been built doesn'T have a/c yet.
Ron: oh oh
rich-c: I think Orlando was enough for evrybody that way
Ron: swear, I've never been so hot as ADAMCON 10 in Orldnad
Ron: Orlando
james: i meant to mention, although i'm sure an adamcon in japan is probably not feasible, any of you are welcome to come
rich-c: now you know why Canadian schools close down for teh summer
james: and i'll show you around.
james: :D wish i could close down for the summer.
rich-c: well, once you do get a/c it should be tolerable
Ron: one of these days James..... have always wanted to go there
james: i've got a ceiling fan which helps, and when i do get a/c (hopefully next year) it'll keep things even.
Dale: Well, you can always have a half AdamCon. Rob Freidman had AdamCon 3.14159265 between AC3 and AC4.
rich-c: Frances says she doesn't feel up to 14-hour flights any more
james: you're more than welcome to come.
Dale: It was hosted by the Long Island Adam Resource (LIARs), of which I'm a member.
james: i'm only 26 and there are times when *i'm* not up to the long flights. from my place here to my parents' place in
Ron: Have a sister who's been across the Pacific several times from Edmonton and yes.... it is a long flight
james: ottawa, it's a gruelling 29 hours.
rich-c: we are not enthusiastic flyers anyway
Dale: He and I were the only ones attending.
Ron: I used to enjoy flying
rich-c: it was nice when you could look out the window and see the fans turning
Ron: now it's something I have to do to get from here to there
Dale: Ron, our computer-back woodsman.
james: :D i actually like the propellor planes better too.
rich-c: like modern computing, too high tech and demanding
Ron: exactly Rich.... that says it all
james: i agree. i think part of the attraction with older machines is because they are *fun*
Ron: I sorta though this iMAC would rekindle an interest but ... it didn't .... not in the same way as ADAM dis
Ron: did
rich-c: yes, we're planning the Seth - Adam's descendant
james: really?!
Ron: oh yes.. SETH
Ron: you'll have to read the transccript James. And your input is required
rich-c: Like eZ80 chip - Yamaha sound and light - 64 meg hard disc
Dale: The new Coleco Adam compatable laptop computer...
james: count me in on this project for sure.
Dale: with USB, and an 80MHz eZ80.
Ron: It has to be capable of travelling to ADAMcons in a suitcase
james: downward compatible?
Dale: Or a laptop case.
Ron: yes James, that was listed as requirement
rich-c: Long as it classes as carry-on luggage, that'll do
james: okay, okay, i'll read the transcript :D
Dale: Sure, with some enhancements just fo the excitement,
Ron: good enough
rich-c: easy there, Dale
rich-c: though of course a 56K modem, and DSL/cable capability if and when
Ron: we DO have the technical expertise to do this you know\
james: funny, because this is something i'd thought about but never considered pursuing seriously, mostly because i don't have the tecnical
Dale: Well, it is something I've been contemplating since about AdamCon 6 or thereabouts.
james: skills to buid a motherboard from scratch.
rich-c: Do we really need 8-layer boards and surface-mount tech to do it?
Dale: Well, I took a course where I picked up the skills, but I'm a slow bloomer, as everyone knows.
Ron: And not a pushpin in the entire setup
Ron: Actually, maybe there should be
Dale: Nor crispy bacon.
Ron: I'll have to tell you about pushpins James
Ron: if you haven't already heard
Dale: Oops, I guess I just lost Ron's support.
Ron: hey..... that's a screensaver!
rich-c: like crispoy bacon and islands, it's an in-joke
james: here's some input: make the os language independant rather than hardcoded. have it point to a resource file
Ron: Ron Mitchell's crispy bacon screensaver
james: sorry - by language, i mean human language, ie english, spanish etc..
james: pushpins? as in walltacks?
Dale: You mean, make it localizable.
Ron: yup
james: yup.
Dale: Yes wall tacks with the plastic heads.
Ron: It's a long story James. I'll send you a message
Dale: Useful for all jumper wiring you need to do.
james: :D not your standard electronic component, for sure.
Dale: Right Ron?
Ron: Right Dale.
rich-c: Ron is allergic to soldering irons
Ron: Briefly... I showed up at aDAMCON 10 with a memory expander and addresser card that
Dale: I use aligator clips myself.
rich-c: they make his fingers break out in blisters
Ron: were connected with jumper wire terminated not with proper solder joints
Ron: but with push pins. Bob Slopsema has never let me hear the end of it
james: i like chip sockets. hold chips and wires rather nicely.
Dale: They can be disconnected and reconnected at will. Which matches my reconfiguring nature.
Ron: well...given my ability with a soldering iron, as I said earlier, push pins do it ok
rich-c: yes, and you can pull something out and replace it if it goes wonky
james: so i guess ron gets all his electronics supplies at business depot then? :D
Dale: Yes, like due to heat. Or I can swap components around to a different Adam.
Ron: certainly
Dale: Serviceability is of prime convern for me for some reason.
rich-c: note for Seth: replacable parts
Ron: and I have learned to ignore Bob Slopsema (who is not here to defend himself)
Ron: we need a 'requirements file'
Dale: Hmm...yes a requirements file.
james: i've got pushpins if you need them.
Dale: I'll have to see what I can do about that.
rich-c: OK, who will hold it? You? Dale? Dr. D.?
Ron: something to be said for being able to swap stuff in and out as developments occur
Dale: I was thinking of one on my website, where you could just fill out your thoughts, and have them published instantly.
Ron: Are they Japanese pushpins?
rich-c: that's why I'd like to pursue the software on cartridge method
Ron: Good Dale. do that ... we can all take a kick at the cat
james: yes and no. like everywhere else, they're made in china.
rich-c: sounds like a great idea, Dale
Ron: rotfl
Ron: hadn't thought of that
Dale: I'd better get going soon.
Ron: some of us have to work tomorrow..... I've forgotten what that's like
rich-c: yes, it's getting on here in the east, isn't it
james: c'mon dale, the afternoon's just getting started :)
rich-c: I still have to check my email and deal with it
Ron: here it's 8:34 pm
Ron: yesterday
Dale: Nope, I have other obligations. Even if some people only have to work one hour per day :-)
james: touche! hey, i have to work later too.
Ron: you're in charge Dale?
Dale: In charge of what?
Ron: the company
rich-c: he's got the infrastructure, makes sense to use it
Dale: You mean Seth Corporation
Ron: yes.... it's a management style...called Delegate and disappear
Ron: yep.... you're CEO
Dale: Sure.
james: i'm in charge of my company. got a great boss who lets me fool around with his wife.
Ron: Rich and I can be directors in charge of governance
Dale: I just need to hire some Enigneering students for the summer next year, and boom! A new machine.
Ron: nice work James
james: can i be Director of Supervision?
Ron: there ya go, and HRDC will foot the bill
Ron: you can be Director of Supervision James.... why not
Ron: When we need to be supervised we'll come to you
james: heh heh heh.. hrdc..
Dale: HRDC? I know that I'd be eligable for 1/3 R&D tax credit.
rich-c: how about a startup grant?
Ron: You need a v/p in charge of gov't grant procurement
james: i hear they have people that go arond measuring the humidity of the soil of the office plants. tax dollars at work..
Ron: identify hoops to leap through and leap through them
rich-c: yes, but who knows anyone on speaking terms with the government - any government?
Dale: Way much paperwork for gov grants. Been though it, and missed the window. :-(
rich-c: and it hurt going thru the wall....
james: what kind of funding are we talking? (ie order o' magnitude)
Ron: We got a guy here who is a MASTER at it. He used to be a Major at National Defence HQ in Ottawa
Ron: and he knows his stuff
rich-c: sing in up! give him a free Adam to start!
rich-c: that's sign him,
Ron: he runs our community net, and I don't think we've raised more than 1000. of our own money yet
Dale: Well, it'd be easy to hire some Computer Engineers to do it for <$30,000.
rich-c: How much do tin cans and string cost, anyway?
james: ouch.
Ron: Note for SETH: (this should be child's play)
Dale: But I could do it myself for <$3000. It'd just be less likely to be done by the end of next summer.
Ron: A back lit keyboard so that people like me can type in the dark
james: re - tin cans and string - the consumer gouging monopolist bastard phone company here, ntt, wants $850 for installation of a basic phone line
Dale: Is wireless cheaper then?
Dale: Hmmm...backlit Adam keyboard.
Ron: mygosh!
james: i'm still checking it out. but the quality isn't good.
Ron: yes sir, I just had to turn on a light to find the home row
james: i'm looking to get a basic phone line and adsl service for my school and i think kdd (another co.) wants $350 a month for adsl.
james: alot better than the $600/mo they want for 128k isdn service, not to mention the $3000 installation. as you can see,
Ron: And this is in the land that invented the stuff
james: there's a way to go yet here when it comes to bandwidth infrastructure.
Ron: ic
rich-c: yes, we forget how well off we are in Canada
Ron: when I hear things like this.. yes
rich-c: actually, if we're not leading the world, we're close as never-mind
james: tell me about it. a low phone bill here runs me 6000 yen. ($90c)
Dale: Well, with translucent keycaps and some neon tubes, it might be doable. But can't you use the marks on f and j to figure it out?
Ron: Of course any people who would willingly pay $250 for a round of golf
Ron: Something like that Dale
Ron: Just one of these 'toy' features
james: indeed. i've figured out that this country is expensive because of uninformed consumers who don't question what things should cost.
rich-c: Anyway, folks, I still have much to do
rich-c: Got to call it quits till next week
Ron: and little enough time in which to do it
rich-c: So niters for now, all
Dale: Bye Rich.
james: ttys rich - thanks for sending that stuff out to me. i'll let you know when i get it. you may be back from your trip before then.
Ron: nite Rich... no stopping at the bar on the way home
rich-c: 3 - 2- 1- poof
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Ron: and another one bites the dust
james: and then they were three..
Ron: how long have you been teaching James?
Dale: BRB...
james: i first started about 3 years ago when i was here on a working holiday visa. that was for six months.
Ron: neat
james: went back to canada for a couple years after that and i was dissatisfied with my job so we came back here earlier than
Ron: you're not the first young person I've heard of teaching English in Japan
james: originally planned.
Ron: have a cousin who did the same
james: i've met a few people. most people here are here through the jet programme, and working for the board of education.
james: there are some like me, married to japanese that have started their own schools.
Dale: 0...-+*-Back.
Ron: ok .... does the board actively recruit people from abroad?
Ron: right... would seem like a logical extension of what you started with
james: as far as i know, they're always looking for people. only requirement is a university or college degree in *anything*
Dale: My mother-inlaw and sister-inlaw are both teach English in southern Japan.
Ron: right - post secondary
james: which, incidentally, i don't have.
james: dale, do you happen to know more precisely where? i'm pretty far south.
james: starting next spring, i hope to have a small web start up, doing e-commerce sites for stores around the town and teaching internet courses
james: during the day.
Dale: I don't remember exactly. It is in a larger place. Maybe Osaka?
Ron: must get out my atlas
james: okay, osaka is about 6 hours from here by car, generally east.
Dale:'ll want something better than dialup access by then.
james: which is why i've been frothing at the mouth lately. ntt is really starting to piss me off, pardon my language.
Dale: Reasonablly close. Like Toronto to Ottawa.
Ron: ok I see Osaka
james: yeah. by shinkansen (bullet train) it's about 3 hours.
Ron: and Matsusaka
james: you'd have to be nuts to actually drive in osaka.
Ron: and Wakayama
Dale: So if I find my self in Osaka next spring, I could drop in and bug you ;-)
james: you certainly would be welcome.
james: want my phone number?
Dale: Maybe later.
james: actually, it's on my web page anyways.
Ron: Are you in a rural area James? Is that why the phone costs are so high?
Dale: Once you start up your own "Godzillatel", you'll probably change your # anyway.
james: i'm in a very rural area. small town of 8000 people.
Ron: or is that just the way it is everywhere?
james: but as far as i know, ntt is a bunch of consumer gouging bastards everywhere. only recently with their deregulation have they
Dale: It is pretty expensive even in Tokyo, where another of my friends is.
james: started waking up.
Ron: aha....
Ron: people pay what they are told to pay
james: at least there are alternatives for cellular and long distance now.
Dale: You know how it is, Japan's new economy is build on heavy consumerism.
james: my parents in law used to have $600 phone bills calling my wife when we were still in canada and had just started going out.
Dale: My sister-inlaw has a personal organizer device for email.
james: this country is still in recession, despite what the current monkey of a prime minister thinks. they've been spending trillions over
Dale: It sends and received email for about $0.20 per message, she says.
james: the last decade on stupid public works projects. what they should be doing is reforming the banks.
Dale: That's in a more major Japanese city.
james: i was looking at those but they seem like they'd be a pain to try to type on.
Ron: politics. Guess it's the same everywhere
james: yeah. japan has gone from a debt to gdp ratio of 30% to 110% in about 10 years.
Ron: not good
Dale: Japanese banks do need some help, but any dramatic change would also be catestrophic.
Ron: We feel it even over here
james: no. not good at all. factor in the fact that in 15 years 1/3 of all people will be 65 or older and that by 2004 the population
Dale: That's the big problem that the US has. But they are gradually changing to a more ration system.
james: will be in decline.
Ron: Well yes. It's people in my generation. We're all here and we're getting older\
james: what japanese banks need is a dose of honesty and transparency, less of the "old boys network" and more accountability.
Dale: The dreaded G7 disease. The richer the family, the smaller it becomes.
Ron: I think you've got "old boy's networks" no matter where you go.
james: yeah. at least in canada and the us, we have immigration which in the case of canada is the only reason our population even grows.
Ron: Speaking of Old Boys Networks -- G7 (or is it now G8??)
Dale: I think that Russia is more third world than they would like to admit.
james: i agree with you on dale. they've been "coasting" so to speak and their infrastructure is falling apart.
Ron: Funny parallel came to light this past week with Russia. Their military have more problems than we ever thought
Ron: including Colonels driving taxi
Ron: But here, the military just got a big pay raise, because there had been similar things going on.... cpl.s going on welfare, etc
Dale: China is going to be even stranger in 30 years. Only 1 baby per family. Boys favoured so much that mysteriously most new borns are boys.
james: yeah, if they ever tried to fire a torpedo at us, they'd end up nuking themselves instead. that is if they could even account for all their warheads.
james: china is a big question mark i think.
Ron: And we can't keep a search and rescue helicopter in the air if our lives depended on it... which
Ron: they frequently do
james: i occasionally joke (rather morbidly) about the canadian military, but the sad fact is that we'd be woefully unprepared and
james: incapable of defending ourselves.
Ron: yep. If it weren't for NORAD and various joint cooperation arrangemens
Dale: Oh, didn't you hear? They finaly ordered 1.8bill worth of new vehicals including some S&R helecopters.
james: a country with resources (especially freshwater) like canada should be far more keen on national protectionism.
Ron: have they?
Ron: about time
james: about time.
james: ron and i are actually the same person.
Dale: That was like a 10 year delay I think.
Ron: we've got the west coast S and R squadron here, and I swear everytime I see a Labrador chopper fly overhead I duck
Dale: Well, it just goes to show you. <grin>
Dale: ROFL Ron.
Ron: echo off
Ron: :)
james: what canada needs to to is clean up the damn debt to manageable levels and install more border security, especially
Ron: Credit goes to our skilled airmen who can keep the beasts in the air as often as they do
james: near seaports and reserves.
james: i'm actually surprised there haven't been more incidents.
Ron: I agree James. Out here on the west coast, border security tends to be a joke
Ron: And the States has moaned about it more than once
james: i can tell you that coming in from vancouver, i could have had plutonium in my backpack and not be noticed.
james: i can't say that i blame them. they have enough to deal with the mexican border. i'm a little insulted mind you that everyone
Ron: yes.
Dale: Canadians with ID are let in pretty easily.
james: tries to use us as a stepping stone.
Ron: We had that incident just before last Christmas where they picked up a carload of explosives crossing between
james: they being the illegal migrants, not the americans.
Ron: Victoria and Port Angeles Wash.
james: heard about that. your lovely sovereingtist quebecers who'll let in anyone as long as they speak french.
james: also had an incident involving an algerian if i'm not mistaken.
Ron: don't get me started on that
Ron: yes there was
Dale: I'll sign off now, and put up a transcript later of what you two said. Space has started "Godzilla versus Mothra" which is a sign
Dale: that I should be in bed.
Ron: Anyway..... we should equip the gov't with Coleco ADAM computers
james: i'm young, but if i'm not mistaken, 100 years ago, lucien bouchard would have been hung for high treason.
Ron: probably
james: what is the govent using anyways? ddp 11s? :D
Ron: some would say he should even now
james: i'd do it myself if given the chance.
Dale: bye
james: bye dale. thanks as always!
Ron: Well it's a mix but a lot of Microsoft stuff
Ron: niters Dale
Dale: poof
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Ron: Before I retired in 1995 James, I worked in the Air Traffic Services Branch in Ottawa
james: the ants went marching two by two, hurrah, hurrah.
Ron: and we had mostly Mac stuff because it was good for our graphics
james: macs were (and still are, i think) a better graphics machine.
Ron: then Treasury Board came along and said, "no, no. You're going to use IBM and Microsoft and
Ron: you will enjoy it"
james: actually, the whole mac architecture really is better.
Ron: There was almost open warfare
james: i can imagine. i used to be a big pc fan but lately i've seen the elegance and thoughtfullness of design in the macs
james: and wonder why they never took off more than they did.
Ron: The way we figured it, must have been some gov't officials who got a whole bunch of pool time chez Bill Gates
james: i bet you're right there. money lubricates all kinds of gears.
Ron: anyway... had a couple of guys working for me at the time who refused to write off their macs, and I didn't press the point
james: i try to live by the adage if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Ron: I have both here now, and physically the macs are way better constructed
Ron: exactly
Ron: and I like the iMac, although it has a couple of features I have trouble getting used to
james: they were always ahead of their time too as far as apps and user interface goes. or ahead of pcs anyways.
Ron: the keyboard is different enough to be annoying at times
james: the lack of floppy drive would be kind of annoying but they have an external usb model right?
Ron: well yes, there is, but I have a CD burner now, and I'm networked to an old LC475 which does have a floppy that IMac can
Ron: access
Ron: but they were right.... I seldom use a floppy any more on any of my stuff, either side of the house
james: "windows" keyboards are annoying. if that damn space bar gets any smaller i'll freak.
Ron: I noticed that
Ron: pretty soon, there won't be one
james: especially on a japanese keyboard, there are extra keys for japanese input methods and the spacebar is too far left for my
james: right-handed thumb.
Ron: yeah.... sometimes these things can be a pain
Ron: you wonder who the winner was who designed stuff like that and how many real users he talked to
james: i'm always hitting the "kanji" key instead of the space and throwing it into japanese input mode.
james: my guess is the winner was a wiener and he talked to no one.
Ron: yup
Ron: Still haven't heard back from my spies in Ottawa re newsletters
james: so you've been retired since 1995? do any contract work or pure retiree?
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james: was going to ask about that.
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Ron: No, I'm into some volunteer stuff here James for the local community freenet. And I write news articles for a similar
Ron: net in Campbell River 30 miles up the road
james: i wonder if lou hubert would even have any of that stuff, assuming one could find him. (which thus far i've had no luck)
Ron: Apart from that, I rest
james: are you in a rural area too?
Ron: well we're 70 miles north of the nearest BIG shopping mall The population of the area here is about 40,000
Ron: give or take
james: not bad at all. i like rural areas. some inconveninces but the pros far outweigh the cons.
Ron: and we're about 25 miles off the mainland of North America
Ron: oh yeah, I wouldn't live anywhere else now. Have a son in Vancouver (engineer in Fire protection)
Ron: and I visit him once in a while. That's enough of the big city
james: neat. ottawa is crazy now. rents are quickly approaching toronto prices and vacancy is near 0.
Ron: Well they always were high compared to other similar sized places
james: i figure ottawa will double in size within 10 years. growing at 6% a year or something like that.
Ron: but I can see where they would be going up. That was starting to happen when my wife and I split up in 1990
Ron: It's always had a solid base of citizens due to the civil service
james: yeah, and now with high tech taking off, it's really booming. my parents' house has gone up in value 25% over the last 4 years.
james: and they live in barrhaven.
Ron: We lived in Queenswood Heights (Orleans/Cumberland)... same was happening there
Ron: although I'd bet there's still a 25G difference between west of Bank Street and East of Bank Street
james: having grown up in barrhaven and spent countless hundreds of hours a week commuting to school by bus, i can tell you it sucks.
james: you're probably right about that. things seem to be cheaper on the orleans side.
Ron: yes, it would indeed. My son spent some time commuting from Q.H. to Gloucester high. He didn't think much of that
Ron: Anyway sir, I'm going to call it a night I think
james: no. barrhaven to pius x by bus, in the winter was no picnic. i'd have been happy to go to confed but my parents tried in vain
james: to raise me catholic.
james: i should sign off too. i need to eat lunch :)
Ron: lunch? Oh yes.... lunch... well been good talking sir
Ron: take care... probably see you next week
james: indeed. same time, same place next week? :D
Ron: ok nite
james: cheers!
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