> chat > 2000-10-18

Chat for 2000-10-18 21:00:00

Dale: Hi Guy.
Dale: Sorry I was late.
Guy B.: Dale, must be a record. I'm the first one here and everyone else isn't here yet.
Dale: I'll post now, see if it jossles any memories.
Guy B.: Good idea.
Dale: There. It's sent.
Dale: So you've been working on a web site lately?
Dale: I spent some time last night catching up on the chat archive.
Guy B.: The pages are done, now I'm going to work on some documentation for using the utililties and I was thinking of using Word 97.
Dale: You didn't like Netscape Composer? I use it ocassionally.
Dale: Well, either way, once you're ready, I want to post links to it in the AdamCon 12 seacion.
Dale: section I mean.
Guy B.: The webpages were done using Netscape composer. I'm going to use Word 97 to type up the utilities with all the parameters.
Dale: I've been thinking more about the ZIP disk idea we were throwing around last week.
Guy B.: Got have a file to download to, right?
Guy B.: They will be in Zip format once I have all documentation typed up and saved.
Dale: II think I should keep my eye out for an IDE 100MB ZIP drive. Then I can see what is involved. Until then...
Guy B.: The Qbasic/batch files too.
Guy B.: I think the price has gotten cheaper now with the 250 Zip drive out.
Dale: I think that I'll check out how Linux supports the ZIP drives. It is possible that the Adam would need a minimal patch to TDOS/EOS to support it.
Guy B.: That would be great if that could be done that way.
Dale: Anyway, I'll keep it in mind. It is a very attactive price. When you pointed out $40 for one of the drives it caught me off gard.
Dale: guard.
Guy B.: was the only one I've found that had these drives. But, I believe others may have it too.
Dale: Yes, a zip file with the QBasic and Batch files is probably the way to go. I would tend to put either HTML or txt documentation with it, but that's just me.
Dale: I'll have to check around to see if there are local supplies in this area.
Guy B.: It would be a pretty fast download that way. I'm debating about whether to get a internal Zip drive or a CD-RW for my new system I'm planning out for next spring. Any ideas?
Dale: Well, the system I just got had both, but maybe that was overkill. It makes it easy to accept almost anything I come across. For giving files to others, it is hard to beat a CD-RW though.
Dale: I think that CD-RW will drop in price again in the next 6 months. Practically as cheap as a CD-ROM drive.
Guy B.: I was thinking of using the CD-RW mainly for backing up the system.
Dale: The only other temptation is to get a DVD player. Which so far I haven't done.
Guy B.: Well, not many games are in DVD, it's just movies right now. But, I don't know if these will become a standard.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to BobSlopsema
Dale: Well, most backup software works great with ZIP drive, but for some reason doesn't usually like CD-RW. So look around for a good backup program firsy.
Guy B.: Well, Bob is here.
BobSlopsema: Hosdy mates!!!
Dale: Bob! I was late and still beat you in.
BobSlopsema: dats' HOWDY
Guy B.: Ok, will do. How's it going there Bob?
BobSlopsema: I know, been busy today, and my daughter is prolly going to have a baby shortly, so got grandson and all
BobSlopsema: nobody else show up yet???
Dale: Not that I've seen. I haven't seen Rich D lately. Anyone hear anything?
Guy B.: How are you handling it so far?
Guy B.: He's probably busy with his teaching job I bet.
BobSlopsema: handling a new baby??? fine
BobSlopsema: but today......gotup early to go to toy auction with 1 1/2 yr old Joshua and pregnant mom.......was ther all home @ 5:45pm tonight...had supper, then daughter & son inlaw
Guy B.: Well, this will be your second one. How's Judy doing?
BobSlopsema: went to meeting while we babysat, then they comehome and announce tonight is probably the night, so we get Josh UP and moved to our house, unpack and it is 9:30PM....
BobSlopsema: yup # 2 it will be
Dale: Boy that does sound busy.
BobSlopsema: told them I couldn't stay, had to ge thome to you guys for some peace and sanity!
BobSlopsema: or insanity????????
Guy B.: You needed a break.
BobSlopsema: Dale, never heard from you......did ADAMCON work out financially??? or do youneed $$$ from the ANN funds????
Dale: And we're gald you made it.
Dale: I did work out okay. We were pretty close to breaking even.
Guy B.: That's good.
BobSlopsema: well, if you are short, let me know and I will have MR Bair send you some cash!!!!
Dale: I've been taking a 3D computer animation course on Tuesday nights. It's great so far.
BobSlopsema: willit apply to the ADAM???
Dale: I'm trying to use it to make an opening video for my "Mayan Adventure" game on my web site.
Dale: Most games now-a-days seem to start with an opening video.
Dale: I've always been into that sort of thing as a hobby and even professionally, but I've never taken a course on it.
Dale: I'm learning 3D Studio Max.
BobSlopsema: cool!
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to WBurnside
Dale: I think I even have a strategy of how you could play the intro video on the Adam, without it blowing a gasket.
Dale: Hi WB.
WBurnside: Hello all!
Guy B.: Hi WB, glad you made it tonight.
BobSlopsema: hiyqa Willie
BobSlopsema: boy, did them dingers fype that time!
Dale: You should stop typing whilst standing on your head!
Dale: Any news WB?
BobSlopsema: think that'd help??? :-)
Guy B.: I'm reading a email from my sister in-law and she got a CD-Rom disk that had some cartoons and she couldn't get it to work. Now she tells me its a Divx disk. That won't work at all. It messed up her system. Any ideas??
Dale: Bob, I've heard testimonials the world over. Try it once and you'll be hooked. :-)
WBurnside: All quiet here Dale!
WBurnside: BobS, did you find the newsletters?
BobSlopsema: no, :-( this past week has ben TOO the note right here though...... :-(
Dale: Guy, no ideas. What did it do? I thought DIVIX was for DVDs. But maybe that's something different.
WBurnside: Ahh! All work and no play!
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron M.
Dale: Hi Ron!
Ron M.: Good evening all
Ron M.: Hi Dale
Guy B.: Circuit City was the only one that sold these disks along with players that can play both Divx and DVD. Last year, they dropped it after it lost so much money.
Dale: Good to see you.
WBurnside: BobS, is that you selling all that Adam stuff on Yahoo!
Guy B.: Hi Ron.
Ron M.: Good to be seen
WBurnside: Hello Ron!
Ron M.: Hi Guy
Ron M.: Mr. Burnside
WBurnside: Just call me Willie
Ron M.: ok
Dale: That's what I thought you were talking about Guy. I don't know if anything will ever be able to readily read them.
Ron M.: so.... a question
Ron M.: Anybody got docs for Filemanager 2.2 ?? (electronic version preferred)
Guy B.: That's what I figured. The disk won't work. I think she got it for free. So, nothing lost there.
Ron M.: James is looking for them. Best I can find is an e-version of 1.4
BobSlopsema: YAHOO, yeyahoo. yes!s.......
Dale: The Divx discs were designed to be read only by special players that would dial up and charge per viewing. But if Circuit City abandoned it, there is no one to dial up to.
BobSlopsema: looked justnow, and do NOT see any NIAD's laying around ,,,,either buried or tossed......
Ron M.: ok...Think I got 'em around here somewhere, but it'll take some searchin'
Guy B.: Exactly, it was a good thing the players work with DVD too. So, you don't have to throw out the player.
WBurnside: Alas! No NIAD's ! What will I do!
Dale: I don't know what version of File Manager docs I would have.
Dale: I got File Manager with my MI drive though.
Ron M.: actually there might not be that much difference between 1.4 and 2.2 insofar as the docs are concerned
BobSlopsema: "....a little searchin'............" now there's a NOVEL idea!
Ron M.: well a lot of searchin' maybe
BobSlopsema: don't know willie, but willhave to look deeper
WBurnside: OK!
Dale: I think that the main difference was what drive sizes it understood (and minor bug fixes).
Ron M.: yes... think so Dale. So maybe what I just sent will do
Ron M.: Had a look at 'em, and they seemed reasonably accurate
Dale: But I'll admit, I was never really a big user of File Manager, except at AdamCon. I usually used QuickCopy or JKL Utilities (Wizard Utilities).
Ron M.: Well if you were a member of AUFG when Guy Cousineau and Tony Morehen were there, you USED Filemanager :)
Ron M.: I don't think I realized there were other such programs till I met you guys
Dale: And at AdamCon, everyone else seemed to be big fans of FM. So what can I say.
Ron M.: Never heard of QuickCopy till I met David Cobley
BobSlopsema: alwasy use Filemanager just because it's on the hd versions of stuff and all (Ron M0 use it, eh?
Ron M.: that was back when the earth was flat and there were dragons at either end
Dale: People in my local club were using other things before I knew about Tony, really.
BobSlopsema: RIGHTO!
Ron M.: yes, so you gravitate to what you started with
Dale: Well, I was the first in my club to get a HD, and at that time it came with TDOS 0.6 or something, and EOS support was neither available nor promised.
Ron M.: do the other file management programs work with the hard drive?
Dale: I must have bought like Minnie-Winnie number 9 or something.
Ron M.: One of the originals
BobSlopsema: dont' rightly know Mr Mitchell////////
Dale: The other programs work fine with the HD, but you need to select your user area before you launch them.
Ron M.: ah so!
Dale: It is just a big Tape Drive 2.
Ron M.: right.
Dale: I got my system and went to work making HD patches for all of my favorite programs/utilities.
Ron M.: Dale, is Ena Greenshields still away?
Ron M.: see my cheque's not cashed yet
BobSlopsema: that IS LL should work; that is the way QuicCopy works, jsut specify what the ram shoudl imitate
Ron M.: after a while, it turns to rubber
Dale: I am still mystified by the "standard" EOS user area 0, that Herman uses.
Dale: I probably don't have any of those loaders with the single exception of the PowerPaint one.
Ron M.: I'm not sure anybody understands that
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to james
james: morning. i'd have been on earlier but i overslept.
Dale: I think she's back soon, but I don't remember exactly.
Guy B.: James, how are you today?
Dale: Did you get the Spet newsletter okay?
james: i'm so-so. you?
WBurnside: Hello James!
james: hello mr. burns :D
Ron M.: yeah.. the Spet newsletter was fine
Guy B.: Aren't we all like that today.
WBurnside: I will hyave the package in the mail tomorrow!
Ron M.: she sent me a bunch of back issues too
Ron M.: Hey James
Dale: James!
WBurnside: James, just call me Willie
BobSlopsema: morning James
james: last night was a productive night for toasting floppies.
james: hi bob :)
BobSlopsema: "taosting floppies"??????
Dale: It has been known to be on my todo list to rewrite the Shift-Undo program to make more sense and be less obscure.
Dale: Maybe with icons for each program or something.
james: not willingly though..
WBurnside: Dale, What newsletter?
james: hi ron.. hey where did ron go?
Dale: James, did you get my email re: SuperGames?
BobSlopsema: snuck out he did...........
james: yes, about 20 seconds ago :D i'm still trying to focus my eyes as i just woke up. thanks.
james: actually, i figured it out last night and even had a successful disk copy working except for.. perhaps someone can help me here.
Dale: The Metro-Toronto Coleco Adam Users Group (MTAG) publishes a paper newsletter every other month. We've published about 80 issues so far.
Guy B.: Speaking of supergames. Jim Walters wrote some docs on how to change the blocks around. I do have them somewhere and I already converted Buck Rogers from tape to disk and it works.
Dale: See for a brief description of our club.
moved to room Meeting Place
WBurnside: How much is dues and back issues
james: i put in a disk in my drive and format it. everything is fine, it reads no problem, no errors anywhere.
changed username to Ron M.
Dale: Welcome back Ron.
Ron M.: Must use a slower tin can
james: welcome back ron!
Ron M.: The other wants a thoroughbred connection
james: i'm sure ntt could provide you with one!
Ron M.: Hi James!
james: (tin can that is)
BobSlopsema: it is NOT the tin can it is the STRING!
Ron M.: too many splitters and couplers and flinglers
(Guy B. laughs heartily)
BobSlopsema: back to the diskdrive............
Dale: Well, dues are $25 Canadian to Canada, and $20US to US. Memberships are renewed every April, so if you join, you get back issues to April.
Ron M.: yes Bob.... it is the string
BobSlopsema: gotta use nylon.....cotton is NO good...... ;-)
james: i'm using filemanager - anyways after i format a disk, i use the block copier. i copy blocks 0-63 of super dk from tape to disk.
WBurnside: Thank you Dale!
james: when i go to read blocks that i've just copied, i get crc errors all over the place, mostly within the first 10 blocks.
BobSlopsema: and it works partly.....
james: i actually got a whole dk game working last night.
Ron M.: Did you try cleaning the drive James?
BobSlopsema: james, try to copy a file disk first nbe fore you atckle those game carts
Dale: Of course if you're active on the mailing list and chats, you'll probably see much of the same content. But it is handy to have the info in another form.
james: that's my next question - can i just open it up and clean it?
BobSlopsema: cleaner disk.......
Ron M.: Disk drive cleaner kit
Ron M.: should have 'em there.
BobSlopsema: w/ special cleaner...prolly alcohol though
james: okay, like i'm going to find a 5.25" cleaner around here..
Ron M.: Looks like a 5-1/2 disk but it's got a circular disk of what looks like flat cotton batten
Ron M.: and a small bottle of cleaner
BobSlopsema: tha may be true James.........
Ron M.: yes, that's the problem... they're not that plentiful any more
Guy B.: Run it for abut 30 seconds should do it and do that every once in a while.
Dale: The cleaner disks are widely avialble as surplus flea market items around here. Or in dusty Mom and Pop computer stores.
Ron M.: wonder if they even know about 5-1/4 inch drives in Japan any more
Guy B.: I managed to get a few at a computer show for free.
james: none of those around.
BobSlopsema: of course!!! Japan started all this computer stuff......
Ron M.: However.... that may not be the problem
james: okay, but why would copying blocks to my drive produce crc errors?
Dale: Hmmm...where else?
Ron M.: why does the wind blow from the north?
Ron M.: who knows.... but I've had my share
Dale: There are a few reasons. On of the most insideous is the faulty/noisy AdanNET cable problem.
Dale: Next option is bad media.
Ron M.: yes, I've had bad media
Ron M.: change media and presto... away you go
Dale: Next option is misaligned head.
Dale: And of course the dirty heads problem.
Ron M.: aren't you sorry you asked James? :)
james: okay, i *know* its not a media problem because these are new disks and i toasted about 8..
Dale: Well, it is better to start with unformatted media and very important to used double density and not high density disks.
Guy B.: Got to be dirty heads James.
Dale: I
james: i can format a disk and read through it, no errors. it's only after i copy blocks (from either tape or another disk) that i get crc errors.
james: ... can't use high density disks ?
Ron M.: no sir!
Dale: I've ocassionally had a whole box of new disks be bad. Fustrating.
BobSlopsema: NO 1.2 HIGH density disks ... NO WAY!!!
james: okay, i'm reasonably sure i'm using high density disks. why not?
Dale: Check your cable. Try swapping it with the keyboard cable.
Ron M.: double density.... unless, of course you have a micro innovations 1.2 meg jobbie
james: no, i'm using a mi 320k.. and yes, 1.2m disks..
Guy B.: That's it. You need double density.
Ron M.: aha!
BobSlopsema: 1.2 are somehow formatted differently and wil not work to any degree of reliatbility
james: jeesh, it was all i could do to find 5.25"..
BobSlopsema: heck, I cna't even use them in an ibm 1.2 drive reliably allthe time
Guy B.: That's what's causing your errors.
Dale: Rerofmatting a high desnity disk on a double density drive doesn't work properly usually.
Ron M.: now you're gonna have to come back and ask the store for something else they don't have
BobSlopsema: 1.44 ibm's are flakey in a 720 drive also
Ron M.: We'll have to send you some
james: okay, now i know. i'll have to locate some..
Ron M.: any flea markets in Japan?
Dale: It has to do with the fact that the high density disks use a weaker magnetic field so that they don't orverwrite the desner information.
Ron M.: that's where they'll be
Dale: (denser)
BobSlopsema: either USED 360k disk or new 360k disks are ok
Guy B.: They are getting hard to find now.
james: no. nothing..
james: thanks dale - i was about to ask that.
Ron M.: well, if push comes to shove, Rich Clee has a basement load of 'em... but you'll have to wait
BobSlopsema: OR as long as you are searching, find some OLD 180k single sided ibm disks
james: i wonder how he's doing? he must be on his way back by now.
Guy B.: And that will be next month.
Ron M.: would think so, think he said Oct 15...give or take
Dale: Locally you buy piles of used IBM 360k disks from Goodwill and the like.
james: thanks for the advice. i was really getting *p.o'd* last night. wondering what the hell i was doing wrong.
james: 360k.. going to write that down.
Ron M.: that's probably where your problem is James
BobSlopsema: 360k OR also called double sided, double density.......
james: okay. btw ron, did you get my e-mail? i figured out what i was doing wrong in filemanager :)
Ron M.: And once again, the forces of good triumph over the forces of evil
Guy B.: There's a way you can tell. 360K has a hub ring. 1.2mb don't have a hub ring.
Dale: They are usually denoted some variation of "DSDD" or "Double Sided Double Density"
Ron M.: as the ADAM universe helps one of its members
james: yes, i vaguely recall that now.
Ron M.: There have to be some left in Japan somewhere
james: used alot of them in my c-64 days.
james: got a friend who's sending me a bunch, i'll have to ask him if they're hd or dd..
Ron M.: well.... if that doesn't work out we can get some shipped from here
Guy B.: Well, I'm going to go here. See you all next week.
Ron M.: night Guy
james: i successfully copied dk from tape to disk. just copied tracks 0-63 from tape to 0-63 on disk. then i copied 128-191 from tape to 128-191 on disk.
Dale: There are people in Toronto area that still manufacture them, I believe. As long as there is a need.
james: worked fine (except for all the crc errors)
james: bye guy :D
Ron M.: amazing it worked at all
Guy B. left chat session
Dale: Bye Guy.
james: but now when i get some 360k disks, i know what to do and it should work :)
WBurnside: I have to go also Take care all!
Ron M.: yup
WBurnside left chat session
Dale: See ya later WB.
Ron M.: Night Willie.... be good
james: and then they were four. wish i'd made it on earlier. i'm lucky if it was 4:30 by the time i fell asleep.
BobSlopsema: geez, EVERYBODY is leaving
james: i'll stay here and comfort you :D
Dale: Well, it seams that everyone but Guy were late tonight.
Ron M.: well, wherever two or three are gathered together
BobSlopsema: well, thank ya pardner
james: sorry dale. i really was going to be on at 10 but i overslept. sure you don't wanna have these chats say round 2 p.m. japan time? :D
Ron M.: yeah.... I'm on dishwashing detail till about 6:30 our time
BobSlopsema: oh, oh, mom is crackin the whip eh?
james: bob, i was looking through the chat archives - was it you that was asking about that steamroller game i picked up
Dale: I've been thinking that if Marcel De Kogel was interested, we'd try to do a couple at a time more condusive to his attendance.
BobSlopsema: it a goodone????
james: what time zone is he in?
Ron M.: Central European Time
james: i really like it. i've had fun playing it and some of my students played it too. got my ass kicked. guess i'm not 13 anymore..
Ron M.: GMT +2 I think
james: ouch. that would do it.
Ron M.: or GMT +1
james: it's probably 4 am. there now or somethign.
BobSlopsema: sounds like a good game
Ron M.: about right
james: if you'd like to try it out, i can make you an evaluation copy and give you the address where you can purchase the actual cart..
Dale: So you see, I was reflecting recently that Marcel has never attended, and when I did the math, I knew why.
BobSlopsema: I wouldLIKE that!!!
james: okay, since i don't have a reliable disk yet, i'll use a tape. would you like a pink hello kitty tape or a green kerokeropi tape?
Ron M.: :)
Dale: <big grin>
Ron M.: designer datapacks
james: :D
Ron M.: I have absolutely no idea if my tape drives even work any more
james: i could find a blue doraemon tape if that's to your preference..
BobSlopsema: PINK! :-)
james: i know mine do. i damn near killed it trying to copy dk.
Ron M.: Got a bunch of datapacks at ADAMCON 0Ch ... haven't tried 'em yet
james: pink it is. i'll try and get it off to you soon :D
Ron M.: Bring 'PINK' to Cleveland with you Bob
Ron M.: I wanna see this
james: i could send you one too ron :)
james: dale, you want one?
BobSlopsema: yes sir Ron!
Ron M.: you're on.... I'.ll even pay
BobSlopsema: i will too!!!!
Dale: What is it?
james: you want a pink hello kitty tape formatted for adam?
BobSlopsema: hey guys, gotta go cause daughter is supposed to call w/ update.... see ya's next week!!!!!
Ron M.: this could be enough to revive the ADAM to full glory
BobSlopsema left chat session
Ron M.: ok Bob.... go straight home. No stopping at the bar getting drunk
james: here's an idea, rather than paying me, since it'll cost you $5 just to make a postal order, i can take a few 360k disks in exchange..
Dale: I'll trade it for a Loran clear datapack shrink wrapped. (Custom run for MTAG) or for a E&T 320k datapac (also shrinkwraped and serial numbered).
Ron M.: you're on!
Ron M.: send me your mailing address in an e-mail
james: 320k datapack? they made those?
james: i'll be *right* back. nature making her morning call..
Dale: Yup thanks to the innovation of Syd Carter (an MTAG member).
Ron M.: how many of those Loran datapacks you guys got left Dale?
Ron M.: You must have bought a million
Dale: About 200 or so.
Ron M.: now there a CLUB of SERVICED
Ron M.: Service I mean
Dale: We sold about 800 over the years, and reordered twice I believe.
Ron M.: I remember Syd
Ron M.: got one of his formatters here
Ron M.: Syd was at ADAMCON 02
Dale: Exactly.
Ron M.: A long time ago
Dale: He's a good guy. I hear from him ocassionally. He is a computer consultant now.
Ron M.: definately going places.....not surprised to see he carried on with it
Dale: It's funny how a hobby can turn into a career.
Ron M.: Dynomite Sound Digitizer, Syd Modem, Tape formatter
Ron M.: Guess you'd know about that eh?
Ron M.: We have benefited from both of you over the years
james: okay, i'm back..
Ron M.: don't pee long
james: :D
Dale: Yup I bought most of my hardware from him.
Ron M.: I don't think we realized there was an ADAM club in Toronto until Rich Clee came for a visit
Dale: 64k expander, disk drive (IHSR), syd modem, sound digitiser, clock chip.
james: i found a BASIC font editor in one of the hacker's books. i'm going to use this as a springboard to getting stuff done in logo.
Ron M.: somewhere in the mid- '
Ron M.: 80s
Ron M.: Although we'd heard about Syd's endeavours
Dale: We were formed in Jan '86 and ...
Dale: the original exec were in close contact with Montreal and a few US groups originally.
Dale: Neil and I were on CompuServe so that gave a good overall impression of the progress of the community.
Ron M.: yeah, we had heard about Cherry Hill New Jersey (what were they called....their newsletter was Spritechaser)
Ron M.: and FCAUG
Ron M.: and .....James' association with ADAM goes back even further than that I think
Ron M.: he was one of the original members of AUFG, before I even got there
james: don't remember the year, but yeah, i was with aufg when lou was doing it. lou was pretty young himself when he was doing it, if i recall.
Ron M.: I remember Tony Morehen saying at one of our meetings that Compuserve membership was
Dale: I guess I knew of Tony Morhen due to BJ's BBS, but not really the user group in Ottawa really.
Ron M.: one of the best investments we could make
Ron M.: there were more than 80 of us at one time
Ron M.: think he was around 16 or so (Lou)
james: that'S what i seem to recall.
james: i think i was 12 or 13.
Ron M.: I joined the club one month and became president about 2 months later... nobody else wanted it
Dale: MTAG formed with about 35 members, and had as many as 130 members. I guess there is really only about 10 members now.
Ron M.: well Dale, you're certainly the longest surviving user group
james: hmm.. JAUG :D Japan Adam Users Group. think i'm the only one ;D
Ron M.: but you have international affiliations
james: i should make a little logo with a picture of japan as the "j"..
Ron M.: some of whom may even send you needed supplies :)
james: :D
Ron M.: yeah!
Dale: At least as good as LIARs (Long Island Adam Reosurce) with 0 members unless you count Rob F and I. :-)
Ron M.: oh yes..... spoke with Rob back in the spring.
Ron M.: I actually rejoined Compuserve, but I haven't logged on since. He was there still
james: one of my computer students, a 14 year old lad to whom i'm teachign had the following comment on the adam:
Ron M.: I'm paying $15 for diddley squat
james: "the keyboard has a really nice feel to it, doesn't it?"
Ron M.: aha! ..that is what I always said.; It still feels like home
james: i still prefer it to any of my pc keyboards. something about the key spacing and springiness works really well.
Ron M.: agreed.
Ron M.: Still got my original set up here
Ron M.: and I do use it.... although not often enough
Ron M.: If you could attend some of the sessions we have at ADAMCON James, especially those
Ron M.: that Dale puts on.... ADAM still had Pllenty of relevant stuff to teach us
james: ;) i hope to have kids doing logo soon. now if i could get it decompiled. i've got the walter's brothers decimal dissassembler
james: now all i lack is the competence to use it properly.
Dale: Eek! There are better disassemblers around.
Ron M.: and with dissassembly that's the most difficult part. Unless you know what you're looking for,
james: i would like to make it to one of the conventions. i don't know what round trip airfare to cleaveland would be and one of
Ron M.: dissassembly can be pretty complex
james: my wives will be pregnant with any luck and probably wouldn't appreciate my skipping out on my first born.
Dale: I like "ZZSOURCE" for CP/M. It actually has a goal of makeing symbolic re-assemblable code.
Ron M.: big bux
james: probably. perhaps if it were in vancouver, i could swing it.
Ron M.: I usually went in looking for something pretty specific..... ie screen control or something like that
Ron M.: have tried ZZSOURCE....also DAZZLESTAR
james: i could arrange it as part of a personal trip going on to ottawa or something.
james: zzsource or dazzlestar - where would one acquire these?
Ron M.: sure would be something James, if you could make it
Ron M.: hmmm...
james: has a date been set for the one in cleaveland?
Ron M.: where's the CP/M site...... somewhere on a mirror in california
Dale: First check in Systems / cpm
Dale: it might be there.
Dale: If not I'll have to try and make it available to you.
Ron M.: and I've got it here... or both I think
james: will take a look. i didn't have much luck with the one i've got. it's askign for address that i have no idea and does some weird stuff
james: with the drive at startup.
Ron M.: DAZZLESTAR has a way of marking the addresses it perceives to be Symbols you can even name them if you want
Ron M.: once they're identified
Ron M.: Of course knowing the Z80 nmemonics helps
james: cool. what i'm going to do is gain a comprehension of thie BASIC character set editor and then try something along those lines
Ron M.: Guy Cousineau preferred DASM.COM
james: with logo.
Dale: Actually ZZSOURCE does the same sort of thing Ron.
Ron M.: oh ok.... by another name?
Ron M.: think DASM was a commercial product wasn't it?
Dale: I don't know DASM.
Ron M.: I could only do very basic disassembly....and not always successfully. It was like peering into somebody elses mind
Dale: Also the Adam Emulator comes with a disassembler as does the programming environment on my Mayan Adventure page ( )
james: i barely understand the way *i* think :D
Ron M.: willl have to check that out
Ron M.: right James...I know what you mean
james: a fully decompiled, commented smartlogo would be neat.
Ron M.: Trying to figure out Z80 relative jumps... was something I'm not sure I ever completely understood
james: i noticed that it can't seem to see expansion ram.
Ron M.: Then I got away from it before I even got starteed
Ron M.: started
Ron M.: NOw.... on that one....
Dale: Well, that's why you want the (as yet to be created) Rich Drushel commented version of Logo.
Ron M.: there are a couple of patches around....
james: i've done some intel, though not much mind you.
Ron M.: Think Walters came up with one, and it runs in my mind that Guy Cousineau actually wrote a patch in LOGO
james: well, if it's something i coudl learn to do, i'd like to for the learning aspect.
Ron M.: that would allow the user to see the expansion RAM
Dale: I wrote a printer patch for LOGO.
james: hmm.. yeah because i booted logo before putting in the card and checked the available nodes. after putting in the card and rebooting it
james: i got the same number of nodes.
Ron M.: have that one too Dale
james: that's neat - was it difficult to do dale?
Dale: Right, LOGO could only use the expansion RAM as a RAMDISK.
Ron M.: I think it has to be told that there's more memory and how to access it
Ron M.: you may be right Dale... it's been a while since I looked at it
Dale: Not too hard. There are some docs on how to ass machine code to your LOGO environment in the reference section.
Dale: Then I took a printer patch for SmartBASIC and got it working in LOGO.
james: i was looking at that. doesn't look too difficult to do.
Ron M.: something, somewhere
james: hmm. that's what i'm going to do first with this basic font editor.
james: .deposit, .examine, .call, .allocate..
Ron M.: yup thems the ones
Ron M.: I gotta get back to this stuff
james: :D can one make eos calls from logo?
Ron M.: well yes, and it seems to me that LOGO didn't do too much in the way of changing EOS
james: that's good. on both counts.
Ron M.: I wrote a patch once to get back to the hard drive from LOGO, and alls I did was call the printer address
Ron M.: smartwriter address I mean
Dale: You may need a little "glue code" deposited, but basically yes.
Ron M.: at that point Guy Cousineau said, "you're becoming quite a hacker"
Ron M.: took it as a compliment
james: hmm. i'm still thinking about how i want to do the japanese characters. even katakana is difficult to do in 8x8 pixels.
Dale: What I did for Herman is make a TO SMARTWRITER that call the SmartWriter entry point to exit LOGO.
Ron M.: That would be a challenge and a half
james: yeah, i was trying it. they're barely ledgible and look like sh..
Ron M.: right.... then you load that procedure with your startup stuff
Dale: James, aren't there some premade 8x8 Katakana fonts around. It rings a bell.
james: i've seen 16x16 but 8x8 is really hard to read.
james: i'll have to take a look at the half-width katakana characters on my wordprocessor. i think they're 8x16.
Ron M.: guess that's why we never went to 80 cols with the TMS9918A
Ron M.: but actually, you did didn't you
Ron M.: thinking of Gary Bowser's stuff
Dale: I did. But sadly, there's only one.
Ron M.: a prototype
james: hmm someone is selling a complete adam with 40mb hd on e-bay.
Dale: I'm almost tempted to add AIM board support to the Emulator so I'm not so alone in the universe.
Ron M.: I'm in
Dale: Minie-Winnie or MI?
Ron M.: either
Ron M.: have both
Ron M.: prefer MI
Ron M.: but it doesn't matter
james: talk about a fully loaded system, check this out:
Ron M.: sec...don't let that scroll for a minute
Ron M.: Now there's a project for you Dale
james: did you check out the system?
Ron M.: Spaniel does not allow the user to highlight and copy a URL encountered during discussion
Ron M.: No, I was just copying the URL
james: ? i was able to just highlight it back and put it into my browser..
Ron M.: Besides, I only have one line out of here
Dale: I can copy okay. Can't you just use Ctrl+C to copy?
Ron M.: oh were you? How did you do that
Ron M.: ok sec... you learn something new every day
james: just highlighted it, ctrl+c and then ctrl+v into my browser address bar..
Dale: Well, I use Linux and just drag selecting puts it in my copy buffer.
Ron M.: well, I'll be damned
Ron M.: ok.. so live and learn
Dale: There, now the world is a better place.
Ron M.: hey!
Dale: Wow! What a system.
james: hmm you *can* teach an old dog new tricks.. (just takes awhile) ;)
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return-of-james: ping..
Dale: Mirror of james?
Ron M.: yeah.... I'm tempted, If I didn't have 2 already and 3 in reserve
return-of-james: thought ron banned me there for a second ;)
Ron M.: Wonder who that belonged to
Dale: A good question.
return-of-james: that's what i'm wondering, especially with the hard drive.
Ron M.: wonder if that's Don Bueltman
Ron M.: you were talking to him James
return-of-james: i was and haven't heard from him since i've offered to buy his system, twice.
Ron M.: surely he wouldn't put it up for auction knowing he had a confirmed buyer
return-of-james: i don't think that's his though because he never mentioned a hard drive but mentioned two floppy drives.
Ron M.: oh. ok
return-of-james: he also mentioned a monitor.
Ron M.: right, so it's somebody else then..... I'm curious
return-of-james: wonder why he won't get back to me..
return-of-james: guess he's busy.
Dale: There are probably about 2 or 300 systems that could match that one.
Ron M.: well, we'll find out James. I've had a bit of an exchange with him since...talking about the good old days and all
Ron M.: So I'll inquire
return-of-james: thanks :)
return-of-james: anyone here like the barenaked ladies?
Dale: A bit fan!
Ron M.: yes
Dale: Are they in Japan right now?
return-of-james: just got their new album a few days ago. i really like it.
Ron M.: oddly enough (I'm 56 years old...not that that should matter)
return-of-james: don't i wish.
Ron M.: Canadian group makes good
return-of-james: age doesn't mean much.
Dale: Well, they've been pretty visible lately. Their new album is a good one.
Ron M.: don't suppose.... although every time I get my son's CD Christmas list, I wonder
return-of-james: i just found out about it a couple of weeks ago and ordered it right away.
Ron M.: Metallica, Judas Priest, Etc
return-of-james: was never into those groups. i like the doors, some of the later beatles stuff.
Ron M.: to each his own
Ron M.: Actually, I'm a country and western freak really
return-of-james: you'd get along well with my wife.
Ron M.: aha! a fellow fan
Ron M.: anyway...folks, mother wants to use the phone, and since it's her phone
Dale: I have to get going now.
Ron M.: see ya's next week
Dale: So see you next time.
return-of-james: well, i can't talk to myself. it's nice so i'll get some more patio stones down.
Ron M.: email me your address James
return-of-james: sure :)
Ron M.: disk will follow
Dale: I'll email you my address.
Ron M.: disks
Ron M.: see ya's
return-of-james: thanks both of you. send me yours too, both of you.
Ron M.: right
Ron M. left chat session
Dale: bye
return-of-james: *poof*
Dale: poof
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