> chat > 2001-02-28

Chat for 2001-02-28 21:00:00

Dale: Hello
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rich-c
Dale: Hi Rich.
rich-c: hi Dale - did you just open this?
rich-c: I tried getting on using Opera 5 but the applet didn't seem to run
Dale: Open this?
Dale: No, it's been going since about 8pm.
Dale: You only appeared just now.
rich-c: guess it was just a software glitch, then
rich-c: I've been on using Opera the last couple of sessions
rich-c: anyway, if the gang wants it, is Saturday at 3 OK again?
Dale: I'll try and make sure the server is up then.
rich-c: much appreciated - I'll send you a copy of any announcement
rich-c: did you know we got a completely new user last Saturday?
Dale: No I didn't check the transcripts.
Dale: That's good though.
rich-c: anyway, the Saturday before we got the chap who took the free Adam I offered
Dale: Has Opera been good?
rich-c: Has its eccentricities, but my general first impressions are reasonably favourable
Dale: I haven't seen a version in quite a while.
rich-c: it has an interestingly idiosyncratic list of built-in bookmarks
rich-c: well, they're up to 5.0 now and sponsored mode is free
rich-c: so far it is much more hassle-free than Netscape 6 which I just tried
Dale: I may check it out.
rich-c: you will I think find it worth your while
Dale: Netscape 6 isn't quite ready for mainstream use yet. The Mozilla project should be at a more stable point this summer.
rich-c: meanwhile, every time I hit "clear history" in the preferences, Netscape crashes on me
rich-c: well, Netscape has taken the beta tag off 6 - prematurely, it would seem
rich-c: anyway, Netscape now claims to be "powered by Gecko", whatever that means
Dale: It corresponded to their quarterly corporate objectives, not the code bases' maturity.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Pamela
Pamela: Hi, everyone
rich-c: like, put it out and charge $29 (U.S.) for tech support when it crashes?
rich-c: hi daughter, I think I got your tape
rich-c: turned on the dish, turned on the VCR, and prayed
Dale: Hi Pamela.
Pamela: I certainly hope so, Dad - it's one I didn't want to miss. Tonite was a cooperative effort
Pamela: Hi, Dale - are you at home tonite?
rich-c: well, I owe you a few so I hope it works
Dale: I'm at home. Last time I worked until Midnight.
Pamela: Midnight??? When do you sleep?
rich-c: isn't that standard issue in the computer world?
rich-c: I"d heard any proggrammer who can spell "sleep" is slacking
Pamela: Dad, I had Kimberly taping Voyager and West Wing, I am taping my movie, and I had you tape the Mole - I watched Voyager, it was a two parter
Pamela: Why does everyone broadcast the good stuff on Wednesday nights?
rich-c: it's a plot
Dale: Gecko is the code name of the new XML based render engine. It is as much as 100 times faster than the old netscape.
Pamela: Are the programmers supposed to be able to spell programmer?
rich-c: I guess that's why Wednesday works best for our chats
rich-c: outside organizations don't schedule against the tv, so everyone's at home
Pamela: Thank goodness for VCR's
rich-c: then they can tape the programs and come on line!
Dale: I'm actually tired tonight. I actually ended up working on the weekend too, which is usually my catchup time for sleep.
Pamela: Dale, the work isn't going anywhere, you know
rich-c: got a project coming up with a tight deadline, Dale?
rich-c: or was it just get it done while the stream of thought is flowing fast?
Dale: I just saw the Voyager part II but I was working last week, so I didn't see part I. Did Kim get abducted?
Pamela: No, he was one of the ones who didnt along with Chakotay, Neelix and the Doctor. Everyone else had their memory engrams reprogrammed and was assigned to work in this plant with a desperate shortage of skilled workers
Pamela: Janeway fell in love, and B'Elanna and Tom fell in love all over again. It had it's moments
Dale: Actually the work did go somewhere. It went to Japan for some demos. I've been more relaxed since my boss left on Monday.
Dale: It is officially too late to help him now.
rich-c: funny, you sound just like Pamela when her boss is away
Pamela: The absence of the boss is a condition devoutly to be wished where I come from.
Pamela: Might be because the boss has a high PITA factor
rich-c: , OK, explain PITA
Pamela: pain in the a**
rich-c: Oh, never mind
rich-c: sorry, took a second to dawn
Pamela: the light goes on
rich-c: Dale, how many of those OAP 64Ks do you have that work?
Pamela: She was in an unusually good mood today - I think it was her evil (good?) twin
Dale: I'd have to cound them to tell you officially. But is is less than 6.
Pamela: Speaking of which, oh veteran surfers, how can I find a salary comparison site for Toronto? I've had no luck with all the versions I tried
Pamela: and I have my annual review tomorrow
rich-c: don't ask me - I didn't know they exist
Pamela: that's a big help, Dad
Pamela: Dale? Any suggestions?
Dale: I don't know. I have that challenge myself.
rich-c: but my preferred search engine at the moment is google - they seem pretty thorough
rich-c: don't know what I would use as the search parameters though
Pamela: I tried salary comparison + toronto, compensation, maybe I should try wage comparison and see if that works
rich-c: can't guess who might maintain and publish such statistics, either
rich-c: department of labour, maybe?
Pamela: What I need to know, and the info must be out there, is what other people doing my job are making in comparison
Dale: Maybe list Toronto first.
Pamela: That's a thought, Dale
Pamela: BRB, I'm gonna try that
rich-c: and don't forget the = sign in front of each term
rich-c: oops, +
Dale: You could try going to the Stats Can site directly. I usually start at and go from there.
rich-c: Dale, how recently have you checked the expanders?
Dale: The + isn't as important with Google.
rich-c: I'm very dubious of Gary's work based on past experience
rich-c: they aren't fast sellers, as you know, but maybe I should have a couple
Pamela: Okay, that didn't work - any other suggestions?
Dale: If you don't like the OPAs, then refer your customers to MTAG. We'll deal with them, and have an exchange/refund warranty we offer.
Dale: I've never met anyone who had problems with the OPA memory expanders.
Dale: You'vbe had trouble with them?
rich-c: I'd be more likely to buy them myself for resale - I am able to respond faster
rich-c: yes, I had I think six of which two proved defective
Dale: Pamela, did you notice the Stats Can suggestion?
rich-c: I think I chucked teh first one, then for an inquiry a while back I checked the good one I had lwft
rich-c: turned out it had died too
rich-c: Pam, you might try and see what dept of labour or whatever has
rich-c: or with the feds, Pam, try Human Resources - likely
Dale: I suggested to check and look for Statistics Canada information.
Pamela: Am trying now and got something like 50,000 hits - be back shortly and will try the hrc next too, along with stats can - back shortly
Dale: Did you burn everone else out for tonight Richard? It is 9:30, an usually we have some American visitors by now.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rich-c
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to james
rich-c: sorry Dale - seem to have got dumped
james: morning all :)
Dale: James!
rich-c: good morning james!!!
Dale: Good to see you.
james: hey dale, long time no see!
james: hi rich :)
Pamela: Good morning James - I got back just in time
Dale: It's been a busy time for me.
james: how's it going pam?
rich-c: still in the clutches of NTT or got the new deal going?
james: still in the clutches of ntt until japan telecom sends me my application form. things here move very slowly.
Pamela: Okay, I was just looking for a salary comparison website and having no luck at all - apparently the info doesn't exist in a usable form
Pamela: However, got some good suggestions Ihave yet to try
rich-c: yes, one of the local papers was blaming the local business methods for the Japanese economic doldrums
rich-c: Pam, maybe some of the job recruitment sites will have some figures?
james: yeah, things are changing, albeit slowly. keep this up and the japanese will be playing catch-up with the koreans instead of the other way around.
james: the koreans are already well ahead in things like financial reform/transparency.
Pamela: being dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century, right?
rich-c: yes - the article has words like cronyism, bureaucracy and stuff
Dale changed username to Jillian
Pamela: Well, hi, Jillian - when did you sneak in?
rich-c: didn't suggest actual corruption - just very much a "who you know" thing - if you don't know who, you wait
Jillian: Dale is laughing at the people on Temptation Island so I took over.
Pamela: I don't blame him. Isn't reality programming wonderful?
rich-c: that's reality?
james: yeah, well i'll say quite bluntly that corruption is a serious probrem here.
Jillian: It's pretty surreal.
Pamela: unreal
rich-c: you're there, I'm not, I defer to your superior knowledge - which also matches the facts that we do know
Pamela: James, have you gotten any of this stuff ie Survivor, Temptation Island, The Mole, Real World?
Jillian: It's been a big topic of conversation at my office too.
rich-c: anyway, another month and you'll be on our side of the Pacific - braced for that?
james: almost every other day there's some news involving a politician, gross amounts of cash and some company.
Pamela: Mine too. It's the newest form of water cooler torture
james: i'm expecting a bit of reverse culture shock.
Pamela: If you don't watch these things, you're out
Jillian: Mostly at my office people express disgust at any one who watchs.
rich-c: yes, how do you like the Mitsubishi scandal?
Jillian: Followed with 'Did you see last episode?"
rich-c: right on the heels of Bridgestone/Firestone, too
Pamela: LOL, Jillian
Jillian: Sorry I haven't gotten back to you about painting.
Pamela: I'm almost ashamed to admit I had Dad tape the final episode of the Mole tonite - I saw it once but had to see the outcome
james: haven't been following the mitsubishi scandal. actually, i barely watch tv at all. and from what i can hear of the
Pamela: S'alright - but it does sound interesting - I like to flex my creative side once in a while or it atrophies
Jillian: I ended up going with another friend about two weeks ago. It's really expensive at the place on Yonge.
james: crap coming out of north america, i'm not missing much there either.
rich-c: you mean you had me tape something SHAMEFUL? Horrors!
Pamela: No shame here -
Pamela: that's Temptation Island territory
Pamela: How expensive is really expensive?
Jillian: I haven't seen the Mole or Big Brother and only one episode of Survivor two.
rich-c: Mitsubishi got caught violating the recall regulations - had some serious problems they just let the customers suffer
Pamela: One episode of the Mole, part of one of Survivor two, couldn't be bothered with T island
Jillian: It's 8 dollars an hour for painting time and betwwen 4 and 40 dollars for the piece.
Pamela: Do watch the Real World from time to time, though.
Pamela: I have nothing to compare that to - have you been anywhere else?
Jillian: When I went I spent 36 dollars for about 3 hours of being there.
Jillian: Well, In collingwood, a 3 hour lesson was 5 dollars.
Pamela: Quite the difference.
james: i figure, why watch "reality tv" when i can live?
Pamela: Most of us watch it to escape, James
rich-c: yes, it's better that way
Jillian: I'm hoping to find a place which is in someone's basement or home.
Pamela: Some of it is more real than others
Pamela: If you succeed, let me know
rich-c: long ago, Frances used to go to a group at the YWCA at Bayview and Sheppard
Jillian: I don't think that I'll find a place which is the same as Collingwood, but I'm hoping closer
Pamela: Yeah, but that was an art class, Dad
rich-c: of course that was for retired folks, with sessions in working hours
Jillian: I will. There used to be a sign at Yonge and Steeles saying 'You're fired' which I think was a studio,
rich-c: these days you need a big group just to cover the rent in a community centre room
Jillian: but I haven't seen it in a while.
Pamela: The aim as I understand it with this stuff is to pull in the people who want to decorate pottery but don't want to do the throwing of the actual pots
Pamela: Am I right, Jillian?
Jillian: A couple o f years ago I went to a class at one of the highschool's in toronto(near Lawrence west station)
rich-c: that would be Bathurst Heights - it's closing now
Pamela: We should look it up in the phone book. That would be Bathurst Heights S.S., right around the corner from my parents
Jillian: Pretty much, Pam.
rich-c: but you could look up classes when they start advertising night school
Jillian: The forms are actually poured into molds and fired once before you start to paint them.
rich-c: I know Frances took carpentry once - found it was really mostly experts doing stuff they didn't have tools for at home
Pamela: Haven't gotten the parks and rec for summer yet
Pamela: She got a lot out of it, though. Barbara is also taking woodworking classes at the local voc school and is enjoying it very much
Jillian: I didn't know they did a parks and rec for summer. I still have the one for winter and fall.
rich-c: well, try the Board of Ed - might be second semester of night school coming up soon
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to MacShaker
Jillian: I'd like to have access to a wood shop now and then.
MacShaker: hello
rich-c: that sounds like Ron after the earthquake
Pamela: The summer one is the one with all the day camps and swimming info in it along with the classes they offer
Pamela: Hi, Ron
MacShaker: interesting sequence of events today
Jillian: Dale started making a small table this weekend. but we don't have a whole lot of tools.
rich-c: the Mandrake still getting bad vibes from Seattle?
Pamela: I have become an addict for HGTV - lots of ideas, but no cash
MacShaker: right..... they got it allright
MacShaker: Hi Pam
Jillian: He also started it without a clear pattern or plan.
rich-c: yes, didn't managed to kill anyone, but from the pix I don't know how they escaped
Jillian: Greetings, Ron.
MacShaker: Hi Jillian
Pamela: Any cracks in the foundation, Ron?
MacShaker: no. not here. Alls we got was a rumble or two.... enough to know what was goin on, but not enought to do anything silly
Pamela: Ah, the joys of living in the circle of fire
rich-c: oh well, your turn will come
MacShaker: But Seattle, now that's another story
MacShaker: yes, so they say
james: morning ron :)
rich-c: the epicentre was nearer Tacoma, but they seem to have got off easy
Jillian: It drives me crazy to watch in the workshop and he does all these really neat projects with his super workshop
MacShaker: Hey James!
MacShaker: keep the quakes over there eh?
rich-c: but with Mt. Ranier a still active volcano in their backyard, I'll bet their nerves took serious damage
MacShaker: hell, they got at least two, maybe even 3. Mt Rainier, Mt. St. Helens, Mt. Baker
james: heh heh. just sending a little tremor or two your way :D
Pamela: Me too - actually, I was watching a Home Again Classic recently featuring the modular homes of Japan - I want one! Just $85 per square foot, and they can build one in three weeks!
MacShaker: Thanks James
Jillian: Shocking. all the trash island couples stayed together.
Pamela: You're kidding!
rich-c: money can do that to a relationship
james: i'm amazingly ignorant of any devleopments going on here outside of the telecommunications industry. i've heard of prefab homes
james: though.
james: how's it going ron?
rich-c: actually, apparently a couple fo Canadian companies are doing a roaring trade in Japan in prefabs
Pamela: They were really cool, James - I wanted to ask if you had been in any or seen any going up
MacShaker: very well sir. Spent all this afternoon raking up the back yard
MacShaker: I am now slightly dead and stiff
Pamela: that's better than very dead, Ron
james: not yet. parts of our house are over 100 years old and likely took months to be built.
Jillian: There'll be another one soon. Dale's already said he wants no part of it.
MacShaker: true
Pamela: But you know he'll watch anyway Jillian. People get sucked in.
MacShaker: Wish Bart Lynch would say if he's ok
rich-c: oh, some of us manage to resist. It's not like it's football, or something
Jillian: Totally.
Pamela: You see what I mean?
Pamela: Sucked in.
rich-c: yes, Zonker is right down in the area where it got rough
MacShaker: I seem to have lost the thread. What are we to avoid getting sucked in to?
MacShaker: exactly Rich
Pamela: Bad TV
Jillian: I have sat and berated myself for three episodes. Totally glued to the set the whole time.
rich-c: the evil eye - the boob toob
MacShaker: Don't get me onto that
Pamela: Comments, Ron?
MacShaker: I am a confirmed radio listener
james: brb. ntt is crapping out on my connection
james left chat session
rich-c: oh, I remeber - radio - that's something we had back when I was a kid
MacShaker: Don't know who survived or who became a millionaire
MacShaker: don't care to know
Jillian: I hardly ever listen to radio. Just on the way to the subway.
Pamela: No one's become a millionaire for at least 100 days now
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Guy B.
Pamela: Hi, Guy - overtime again?
rich-c: hope you have a better connection now, james
MacShaker: Mr. Bona I presume
rich-c: oops! it's Guy!
rich-c: Hi Guy
Guy B.: Greetings folks. Sorry, I'm late. got my car back tonight.
MacShaker: And is it running?
Pamela: Yay!!
Pamela: Bet that felt good
rich-c: how well did they do the repair jopb?
Guy B.: Can't even tell it's been hit. They did a great job on it.
rich-c: still steers straight?
Jillian: Good job.
MacShaker: beautiful
rich-c: no funny noises from the front end?
Pamela: Glad to hear it. Where did you have the work done? I could use the name of a good body shop in Chicago area
Jillian: Dale and I have been hit about three times since we last reported an accident.
Pamela: Where are you when you get hit, Jill?
Guy B.: Nope, but being idle for two weeks. The engine was a little rough. But, it's fine now.
rich-c: comes from stopping for red lights and stop signs, Jill
Jillian: People keep rearending us and their car gets smucked and we drive away.
MacShaker: causing all manner of difficulties... whiplash, dislocated necks...
rich-c: that's the advantage of suvs - nice high bumpers
Pamela: Sounds like fun. Knock wood, so far I have been lucky
Jillian: A couple of times on the 401 and once on keele near bloor.
Guy B.: Ron, did you feel any of that earthquake that hit Seattle this morning?
Pamela: Neither of those locations surprises me. Where do you two live?
Jillian: One thing I really like about the Jeep is the really high seat backs.
Jillian: Yonge and Finch.
Pamela: Nice area.
MacShaker: only just a little Guy. Actually I was over at the curling rink and felt nothing. Mom said she felt a couple of loud 'bangs' and a little
MacShaker: rumbling
Pamela: You drive to the subway in the a.m.?
Jillian: Not many accidents that I see around here, but my office is on the one of the ten most dangerous corners in the GTA.
Pamela: Which one?
rich-c: And anyone who hits you from behind is automatically at fault, so your insurance shouldn't get shirty
MacShaker: Reports say that Victoria (140 mi south of us) was shaken quite a bit
Guy B.: I'm hope Zonker is alright out there. Anyone heard from him?
Jillian: I'm just lazy and it cuts about 40 minutes of my commute.
Jillian: Dale drives me and then comes home and has breakfast.
MacShaker: Re Zonker, no I haven't heard
Pamela: I drive to Wilson station in the mornings, then go to Bloor and Sherbourne by subway. Much better than driving
rich-c: we know there wre no fatalities and they didn't indicate too many injuries either
rich-c: just huge amounts of property damage
Jillian: Our insurance is over 2000 a year and would almost double if I got my liscense.
MacShaker: geez!
Jillian: Dale drives me to Sheppard.
Pamela: $2000 A YEAR? Why?
Guy B.: But, there was alot of damage. I'll catch the news in 45 minutes to find out more.
rich-c: yes, new drivers get dumped on - even "older" married females
Pamela: No Dad, she doesn't drive - just Dale
MacShaker: Seattle TV statons at noon were talking about 12-16 injuries, a couple of them still on critical list
MacShaker: There was apparently 1 death..... (reported to be a heart attack)
rich-c: yes, but if Jill drove she'd be a new driver - that was my point
Jillian: Big fancy expensive SUV.
rich-c: and I don't think $2000 a year is out of line with other insurance costs I've heard
Jillian: Plus it's leased.
Guy B.: Well, I'm going to make a couple of changes for my website before I upload it this weekend. The change will be that VBScript page will be VBScript/Visual Basic. I'
MacShaker: ah the SUV. (Silly Uninspiring Vehicle)
Pamela: Ah. That explains it. Still, even when I was a new driver, my insurance never went that high
MacShaker: sorry. I didn't mean that
Guy B.: I'm exploring Visual Basic to run Dcopy.
Jillian: I'd love to get my own wheels.
Pamela: Do it! It spells freedom. I was 28 when I finally got mine, and have never regretted it.
rich-c: if you can get by withoutb them, don't. more trouble than they're worth
Jillian: I'm not offended, Ron. I love my Jeep and pretty unshakeable in that.
MacShaker: my ex wife still gives me credit for teaching here how to drive
MacShaker: teaching her how to drive
rich-c: ah - NOW we know why she left!
MacShaker: :)
MacShaker: nah. The barefoot and pregnant bit didn't work
rich-c: that's automatic cause for divorce, isn't it?
Guy B.: Was Bob Slopsema on at all tonight?
Jillian: I get sick way more than my collegues who don't take the TTC. Plus my commute is about 30 minutes if we drive and 1&1/2 hours if I go completely on my own.
Pamela: Well for all the horrible stories of parents teaching children, Dad did a damn good job with me. Not one accident or ticket so far and it's been eight years
MacShaker: well done, father and daughter
rich-c: you're just riding the lucky end of the curve, daughter. no one ever escapes wholly
Jillian: My mother tried to teach me, but just made me so nervous, I stopped trying for ten years.
Pamela: I had the best, what can I say
Jillian: Dale is a much better teacher.
rich-c: but I couldn't get your mother to continue learning, Pam
Guy B.: Rich, how many were on for the Saturday chat? Sorry, I couldn't make it.
MacShaker: I recall the first application for insurance I ever made. Think I was 22 years old. The guy said, you may not have
MacShaker: had an accident yet, but we have stats that show that before you turn
Pamela: That's because you wouldn't buy a car with an automatic tranny, Dad - she hated the stickshift
rich-c: Ron and I and a totally new user, never met before
MacShaker: 25, you will, and when it happens it'll be more serious that the average, and cost more money
MacShaker: I proved him wrong
Pamela: good for you, Ron - the insurance companies need to start learning to look at individuals more
Pamela: and stats less.
MacShaker: lies, damn likes, and statistice
MacShaker: statistics
rich-c: they have to pay from stats, Pam, and the whole idea is to spread the risk
Pamela: Now say it three times fast
Jillian: My dad wouldn't buy an automatic either.
Pamela: Why should I get dinged for someone elses stupidity?
rich-c: back then, Jill, they wre hideously expensive, originally and to maintain
Guy B.: I would have to say for someone who filed a claim for the first time that my insurance company really helped me get through everything. I was pleased how everything turned out.
rich-c: As long as it isn't your fault they tend to be fairly accomodating
Pamela: Glad to hear it, Guy. Some companies are more helpful than others. Also, I think it depends on whether or not you're at fault.
MacShaker: Well there ya go. Guy's experience was favourable
rich-c: they're going to have to pay anyway
rich-c: sop maybe if they're nice they can slip a cheapie repair past you
Jillian: He still won't buy one. He insists that standard drivers are better drivers.
Guy B.: I'm grateful for one thing, that I wasn't in the car and it was parked.
MacShaker: Well let me say this about that (standard vs auto)
rich-c: if it weren't for the trailer, I'd likely still have a stick shift too
MacShaker: Having driven both
Jillian: One of Dale's uncles was recently t-boned by a fire truck going full tilt.
MacShaker: I found that the standard required me to focus more on what I was asking the engine to do
rich-c: I don't think I want to hear the results on that one, Jill
MacShaker: But I wouldn't want to spend my life in downtown Toronto with a standard shift
Pamela: lucky for me that the trailer came along then - but that doesn't explain the Zephyr, Dad
rich-c: yes, as you get old those thigh muscles lose their endurance
MacShaker: exactly
rich-c: but there's no denying a stick shift gives you far better control
Jillian: I do prefer a standard sometimes, but splitting the learning experience up leads to better learning overall.
MacShaker: When I got out here in 1995, I hadn't driven in Ottawa or anywhere else (reguarly at least) for 5 years
Guy B.: I wouldn't even know if I could handle a stick shift.
MacShaker: and sitting in the driveway was my late fathers old 1981 Fairmont.
MacShaker: My late father (God rest his soul) felt exactly the same way about this issue ad Rich does
Pamela: I find I am focussed on the engine anyway, but that's training. I can tell I have tranny problems right now, but so far they're minor.
Jillian: The uncle is relatively ok after about 2 months in intensive care. He's back at home.
rich-c: the Zephyr was in the hopes we could revive your Mom's ambition, Pam
Pamela: Instead, you got me. Poor Daddy. Mom should have done it then too.
Jillian: An automatic is easier to off road with.
Pamela: So do you still have the Fairmont Ron?
MacShaker: Think my mom never learned to drive for same reasons
MacShaker: No, it went into trade when we bought Rosie the Bull
Jillian: No reason why she couldn't do it now.
Pamela: Along with pottery, learning to drive a stick shift is on my list of things I'd like to tackle, along with skid school
MacShaker: they allowed me $2000 for it. But then I suppose they'd have allowed that amount for any damned thing
Jillian: I really like the graduated liscensing. Kind of took the pressure off.
MacShaker: Rosie the Bull is the 1993 Ford Taurus
Jillian: When we turned in the festiva, we got $500 and considered our selves lucky.
Pamela: Problem with graduated is, if you can't book an appointment before the G2 runs out, you have to start over again and pay again too
MacShaker: Aw. I always wanted a Festiva. Neighbour in Ottawa had one
Guy B.: What year was that car Jill?
MacShaker: neat to drive
Pamela: I got lunch money for the LTD
rich-c: and the Fairmont was not a durable car, especially in a salt-air climate
MacShaker: especially not with a 4 cylinder engine Rich. That was another of Dad's preferences. He couldn't see why any car should
MacShaker: have an engine with any more
Guy B.: Fairmont were poorly made cars and it haunted Ford for that.
Jillian: I'm not sure. 1991 or 1993. cracked windshield, no radio, bald tires, rear window defrost broken, ripped seats, bad brakes, dent in every panel (including the roof), lost of rust.
MacShaker: But in the case of the Fairmont, it was quite underpowered
Guy B.: Your right, at least you got a decent price for it.
Jillian: It was a standard too. Very much a student car. Dale commuted from Waterloo to Toronto for a year with it.
Pamela: The Zephyr was the same, but it was well balanced I'm told because of where the engine sat in the compartment. Great in snow and on curves
MacShaker: He bought that Fairmont new, and it served well between 1981 and 1996. In fact it's still on the road
MacShaker: I see it around town now and then
Jillian: Really? I thought the G2 lasted five years and then you could get it renewed?
Pamela: There was however an issue with the oil pan as I understand it - something about lacework?
Jillian: I have Friday's off so I'm not going to bother with an appointment the next time I try and get my G2.
Pamela: Once you get your G2, you have to book and pass the test for your G licence before the time expires - then I believe youstart over.
MacShaker: What's a G2
MacShaker: Oh, a learner's permit?
Jillian: G2 is sortof a second level learners. you can drive on your own, but not on highways, with any blood alcohol, etc.
Pamela: The new driver licencing system in Ontario is graduated - a G1 is what youget when you pass your test to get your learners permit - it allows you to drive during certain daylight hours and only with an experienced driver in the passenger seat with you
MacShaker: Ok. Sounds similar to changes they've just introduced here
Pamela: The experienced driver must be licenced for at least five years
Jillian: With the G1 you can't drive on any road with a 100 km/h limit, which is what I like.
Pamela: Which means you can't use any of the 400 highways and some two lane highways
Jillian: It's been in effect in some parts of the states for years.
MacShaker: ic
Jillian: I think that if I had to try and learn to drive on the 401 before I got my liscense, I wouldn't be trying at all.
Pamela: The problem is, in some parts of the province, if you book an appointment to take your G test, you may already be outside your window for the G2. There is a long waiting period for your appointment.
rich-c: not to worry, Jill, most of the drivers on 401 , can't
rich-c: of course that's good incentive for staying off
Pamela: Seems to me I never did get any lessons, I just did it. It wasn't that hard.
MacShaker: I felt reasonably comfortable on the 401 - until some point west of Oshawa. Then panic set in
Pamela: Of course the first time it was 6:30 on a Saturday morning, just to be on the safe side.
Jillian: The last time I was at the testing office there wasn't anyone on standby for either G1 or G2 so if people can take the time to go, it shouldn't be a problem.
MacShaker: Like when I came for ADAMCON 2. Suddenly I realized just how many lanes of traffic there were
Pamela: But again, I've been learning from Dad all these years about what to do and what not to do
rich-c: yes, when we're travelling, I fell very comfortable anyplace over 50 miles from Toronto
Pamela: They've expanded since you were here last, Ron.
MacShaker: yeah
MacShaker: Oh I'm sure.
Jillian: I took lessons in highschool and passed, but wasn't comfortable enough to pass.
rich-c: I didn't find the roads around Seattle any sweat
rich-c: but then after commuting on 401 in rush hour for a quarter entury...
Pamela: Same thing for me. When travelling to Windsor to visit family, the first 25 kms are a pain, after that it's smooth sailing. Same thing coming home. Toronto is the only part where I get tense.
MacShaker: I was just saying to mother earlier, I don't thinkg I've ever felt more on edge than I was when coming off the ferry into
rich-c: just don't go over to Detroit, Pam
Pamela: No worries there, Dad
MacShaker: Downtown Seattle (ADAMCON 11) and out onto the I5
rich-c: and I will go 100 miles out of my way to avoid Montreal
MacShaker: I hated driving in that town
Pamela: Guy, what's the driving like in Chicago?
MacShaker: seemed 3 times busier than anything else I'd ever experinced
rich-c: when 7000 lbs. of car and trailer can't even intimidate a Renault 5, you're in trouble
MacShaker: agreed re Montreal Rich
Jillian: I would rather drive in Montreal than toronto. At least they don't tail gate as much.
rich-c: don't try driving into the Loop in rush hour
Pamela: That's what the El is for
rich-c: the traffic jam starts 20 miles out, and it's stop-go from there
MacShaker: Trouble I found with Montreal is that all the signs seemed to be displaced about 50 yards right
MacShaker: Took me the longest time to realize that the signs I was looking at weren't intended for me at all
Pamela: Since the last time we drove through Montreal I was 15, I cant comment
rich-c: signs? Montreal has signs? who dares look away from the road to read them?
MacShaker: but for the ramp joining from my right
Jillian: I sort of grewup driving through Montreal, so I don't read the signs.
Guy B.: You don't want to know. Right now in downtown Chicago, Wacker Drive both upper and lower is closed for a complete rebuilding job that will take 2 years.
MacShaker: Although, I must say.... once I took Jeff to a ball game at the Big Owe, and I was surprized at how easy it was to navigate there
rich-c: last fall we went to a garden show in Montreal - but took the Metro in from Longueil
MacShaker: probably easier
Pamela: I am a big believer in public transit. I wouldn't drive downtown for anything - people are crazy down there
rich-c: we went round on the south shore to a campground halfway to the USA
MacShaker: In Ottawa, the bus trip from suburbia took 35 minutes. By car it was 65
MacShaker: minutes
Jillian: Whenever we go to the ex or downtown, we take TTC.
MacShaker: And the few times I took the car into work, I turned into a raving maniac
rich-c: yes, they have that express bus right of way in Ottawa
Jillian: I've never driven south of Eglinton.
Guy B.: I always take the L here in Chicago to work. Although I have to connect to 3 lines to do it. It beats driving there everyday.
MacShaker: very neat. I could read, or snooze, or both
rich-c: you shouldn't, Jill, it's an exercise in masochism
Pamela: Or to the skydome, or the convention centre, or the Eaton Centre or the ACC - anywhere between Bloor and Lakeshore
MacShaker: And then there's always Vancouver
MacShaker: which has streets that change names without provocation
MacShaker: Just like Winnipeg
Jillian: Just walking downtown above ground, is an excercise in masochism.
rich-c: again, we stayed weell out in Surrey and could get the expressway to the airport
MacShaker: smart lad Rich
Pamela: And Toronto - for instance Albion, Wilson, York Mills, Ellesmere - all one street from one side of the city to the other
MacShaker: oh you have those too do you?
rich-c: actually, I didn't find Van City traffic especially intimdating
MacShaker: naw.... it's a pussey cat really - but the I'm more familiar with VR
Pamela: I don't remember it, but then I was probably asleep - it was 2:00 am for me
Jillian: I think all cities have such streets.
rich-c: yes, and we took the LRT in to the Expo 86 site, Pam
moved to room Meeting Place
Pamela: Of course with T.O. you also have east and west everything - very confusing for those that don't know Yonge is the dividing line
MacShaker: the infamous sky train
changed username to james
Jillian: It's time for me to get to bed. I've got to finish a CSC assignment this weekend and work is bugging me to do over time.
rich-c: welcome back, james
Pamela: WB, James - the topic is transit
MacShaker: contractors for the latest section have just announced they're taking the BC gov't to court
moved to room Meeting Place
james: hi everyone
changed username to Guy B.
MacShaker: James my son
Jillian: Bye all, Back to Dale.
Guy B. requested to ban Guy B.
Pamela confirmed ban
rich-c confirmed ban
james confirmed ban
Pamela: G'nite Jillian - nice to see you
rich-c: good to have you, Jill
Guy B.: Hi james, Bye Jill
Jillian changed username to Dale
rich-c: welcome back Dale
MacShaker: Guy, they want to forcibly remove you
james: hi guy :)
MacShaker: Hi Dale
rich-c: his evil twin has already been evicted
Pamela: too late, we got rid of the evil twin
MacShaker: alter ego
rich-c: choose one of
Pamela: you're outvoted, Ron
Dale: Hi Ron.
Guy B.: Well, I should be getting off too. Going to check my e-mail. I will be here a little earlier next week. See you then.
Pamela: G'nite Guy
MacShaker: watch out for the car now... it deserves TLC
Dale: Bye Guy.
rich-c: OK Guy, going to try again Saturday ?
Dale: Guy, I never saw your web site is it ready yet?
Guy B.: I'll see, I have to work this Saturday. Won't get home until 2:00 or so.
rich-c: that's fine, 2 is when it will start
MacShaker: Are we on Sat?
rich-c: that's your time, of course
MacShaker: Will have to do something about remembering
Guy B.: I'm going to put in a few changes and hopefully I'll have it up this weekend. The webspace is ready for me.
rich-c: if you folks want to, guess so, Dave has requested it
MacShaker: And it might be a little after noon before I get in...... have computer club at the hosiptal in the a.m.
rich-c: his ISP crashed on him last Saturday and he is unhappy
Guy B.: Ok, I'll try for Saturday, but not guaranteeing it. Otherwise next week. Bye.
rich-c: well, I'll set it up - just don't you guys abandon me, OK?
MacShaker: well, if we have a newbie, then we must serve
Guy B. left chat session
Pamela: You know, I think these people have the right idea. It's bedtime. See y'all next time.
MacShaker: sleep well Pamela
rich-c: Nite Pam, see you this weekend?
Pamela: Definitely Dad - I have a game to return and a tape to pick up
Pamela: Will call to let you know when
rich-c: OK, and I have the computer papers for you too. Night then.
Pamela: Night all. POOF!
Pamela left chat session
MacShaker: Dale, are you guys working on a newsletter?
rich-c: yes, with two new Adam users coming on, I figure we more or less need the Saturday shot for a while
MacShaker: why not Rich.... I'm usually around. Alls I have to do is get the event embedded in my psyche
rich-c: Michael told me a couple of days ago he'd been talking with you, Ron
Dale: Ron, newsletters.
MacShaker: I know, and I promised an article re Ena. Still want to write it, so I better get at it
Dale: Michael is working on the Nov/Dec and Neil is working on the Jan/Feb. I'm a little slow getting people organized.
rich-c: yes, Dale, Michael said you wre a couple of issues in arrears
MacShaker: well, you wouldn't be the first one. Just got a copy of the Amstrad group newsletter dated December 1999 (and in brackets....a little late)
MacShaker: he makes no apologies
Dale: Hmmm...we're not that far behind at least.
MacShaker: Now meanwhile Dale, my $45. cheque remains uncashed - MTAG catchup mailed last July. Think I better mail another and
MacShaker: include the dues for this year eh?
Dale: I propably have here in my appartment. I have all of the financial papers. I just have to sort through them.
rich-c: yes, but it will likely be stale dated by now anyway, Dale
MacShaker: well, the cheque was dated July something or other 2000. It's now stale dated
Dale: Well, April is the renewal date, so I suppose that is where we're at now.
MacShaker: yeah. I'll send along another cheque. The MTAG mail box is still operative?
rich-c: postdate the next one, Ron
Dale: Yes.
MacShaker: :) (ROTFL Rich)
Dale: Ena received the cheque in July, and sent you some newsletters. I guess it somehow didn't get processed through the bank.
MacShaker: yes, I got quite a package, which told me she'd got the cheque
rich-c: Sunday morning is a good time to clear the mailbox, Dale
Dale: So Ron, are you still thinking of trying to do a newsletter for MTAG too?
rich-c: you can even drive down to the Post Office and survive
MacShaker: yes Dale could do
rich-c: the marvels of electronic communication
rich-c: by the way, gentlemen, I found a new toy
Dale: Richard, what are you talking about?
MacShaker: tell us more
rich-c: it's a word processor that will read html and save it as an editable txt or wri file
rich-c: it includes a spellchecker, it's open source, and it's free
rich-c: I think there's a Mac version, too
Dale: Are you talking about StarOffice?
rich-c: no, as far as I know that won't help you convert html to text, though I could be wrong
Dale: I've been using it to good effect for a couple of years now. I can install it on Linux, Windows and several other OSes.
rich-c: this is called AbiWord and it's freeware
rich-c: you can get it from (I think it's org)
Dale: I don't know that one.
rich-c: they had a bit on it in We Compute and I followed up
MacShaker: new one to me
rich-c: give it a look - what beyond a bit of disc space have you to lose?
Dale: The quake in Seatle, they said on the news that 30 people were heart. 3 dead (one of a heart attack).
rich-c: and Dale, I have the Star Office CD which has versions for all OSs on it
rich-c: so when I get Linux installed, that goes on next
Dale: Not even as rambunctious as the riots in Seatle last night (70 injured and 2 dead).
MacShaker: nothing at all
rich-c: yes, they had a fair to middling riot in Philadelphia too
rich-c: wonder whre the Spring Break riot will be this year?
Dale: I james still here?
rich-c: he shows on the list
Dale: MAybe not.
rich-c: could have got cut off by his ISP for inactivity - but he'd have been downloading
Dale: Well, it is already 11, so I think that I'll be moving along.
james: sorry, yeah, i've been lurking and searching for a replacement part for one of my computers.
MacShaker: Moral of the story is, don't try and talk on the telephone and do a chat group simultaneously if you only have a single channel mind
rich-c: yes, getting on for bedtime, Dale. Do let me know how many working expanders you have
MacShaker: Now that I'm on cable.... the phone rings
Dale: Okay. I figured you were there somewhere. It's jsut I hadn't heard from you in a while.
MacShaker: so be well all
Dale: Bye for now.
rich-c: right. think I'll leave too. Ron, see you Saturday, Dale, I'll remind you
MacShaker: not sure what I'm going to do with the rest of the evening, but it'll no doubt have something to do with earthquake preparedness
james: yeah, i get all of the computers for my classroom upgraded and *done* and then the floppy drive dies on one of them.
rich-c: james, any changes to the trip agenda, keep us posted
james: so now i'm looking for some stupid proprietary floppy drive. had one come today but it won't connect.
james: sure thing rich. i'm not anticipating any big changes at this point!
MacShaker: fun James
james: yeah. well i think the drive i ordered can be used but i have to find a cable.
rich-c: I'll leave you folks to it then. Goodnight all
james: one cable i have plugs into the mb no problem but not the drive. the other plugs into the drive but not the mb.
MacShaker: see ya sat Rich..Good Lord willin
james: bye rich!
MacShaker: niters all
rich-c left chat session
Dale: poof
james: anyone left?
MacShaker: and poof
james: nope. okay, bye!
james left chat session
Dale left chat session
MacShaker left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to SOVIET
SOVIET moved to room The Garden
SOVIET left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dave Compson > chat > 2001-02-28
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