> chat > 2001-03-07

Chat for 2001-03-07 21:00:00

rich-c: test
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to WB
rich-c: hi WB
WB: Hello rich-c
rich-c: Is that Willie?
WB: Yes!
rich-c: haven't seen you for a while - you've been missed
WB: I have been working on Wednesday's nights
WB: I am at work right now!
rich-c: that seems to be a recurrent problem but one we can't get around
rich-c: I assume you're awre of the Saturday afternoon chats we've been having lately
WB: How is everything
rich-c: up here we'e digging out of about 8 inches of snow - we got off easy
WB: Yes I read on the list about it. I will probably be tere this Saturday
rich-c: OK. We set that up partly for Dave Compson
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Pamela
rich-c: He's a cop in Las Vegas who works the 4 to midnight shift and never has Wednesday evenings free
Pamela: Achoo! Hi
rich-c: hi daughter
WB: Only 8 iches !
rich-c: well, Chicago get off easier on this one, I gather; it missed you entirely
Pamela: Hi. Damn cold.
WB: Yes! It did!
rich-c: cheer up, Willie's managed to make it tonight
WB: Hello Pamela!
Pamela: so I see. Nice to see you, Willie.
rich-c: anyway, WB, last week we laso got Ron and Guy for a bit on Saturday
WB: Good to see you also!
Pamela: Sorry if I disappear in the middle of a sentence, I have acquired a nasty head cold.
rich-c: I'd hoped some Europeans would turn up Saturday, but at leasst we have two new North Americans
WB: Sorry to hear about your illness!
Pamela: Unfortunately, I slept through Saturday's chat
Pamela: Want it? I'm tired of it already
rich-c: ah, I was wondering whre you were
Pamela: I told you that, Dad. On Saturday when I finally turned up
rich-c: had a really weird experience on the Internet last week
moved to room Meeting Place
Pamela: weird how?
WB: No, thank you! My children have given more than enough germs.
changed username to Guy B.
Pamela: Hi, Guy
WB: Hello Guy B
Guy B.: Greetings!
rich-c: aha, now two from Chicago - hi Guy
Pamela: How's the car, Guy? ; )
Guy B.: Hi Willie, What have you been up to? Haven't heard from you in awhile.
Guy B.: Hi Pam, car is running great. They did a nice job.
WB: I am at work right now. I have been working these past Wednesdays
Pamela: Glad to know it.
rich-c: teaching night classes?
Pamela: What is it about you Chicago guys and your overtime?
WB: Yes.
rich-c: assume your on your prep time at the moment, then
Guy B.: Well, he's at work and I'm at home and I probably going to get a break from the overtime shortly.
WB: No my students are working on their projects right now and call me only when they need help.
rich-c: good, then maybe you can stay longer on Saturday
Pamela: Do they admit they need help, Willie?
Guy B.: I'm going to try to upload the webpages again. My ISP didn't give me much help.
WB: Yes they admit they need help.
rich-c: anyway, let me tell you about my Internet problem
Pamela: Go ahead, Dad
rich-c: about a week ago I hit the bookmark for a site I'd not been on since last fall
Guy B.: So what happened?
Pamela: and?
rich-c: I was using Opera, by the way. Got a hit but nothing but a totally blank screen
WB: yes?
Guy B.: Did you try another web browser?
Pamela: Did you try it using IE?
rich-c: Eventually went and surfed elsewhere, though when I cleared history did get a flash about a 301 error
Pamela: (Great minds, Guy!)
Guy B.: Thanks Pam
rich-c: next day I went back and used the same bookmark from IE
Pamela: And did it work?
rich-c: got a hit - but it wasn't a webpage remotely similar to my bookmark
Guy B.: So what did you get then?
WB: What was it?
rich-c: in fact it had a portal look but immediately put me in a web taxi - endless popups, one after another
Pamela: Looks like someone's taken over the address - lovely
WB: Sounds like a porn site
Guy B.: Boy, do I hate those.
Pamela: Did you try typing the web address instead of using the bookmark?
rich-c: did manage to back out by hitting home page (back didn't respond)
Guy B.: I hit one for a gaming site and about 5 or 6 of them popped faster than I could close them.
rich-c: anyway, cleared history and temporary internet files and stuff and thought no more of it
Pamela: Russell hit one of those once - had a major problem getting rid of the cookies etc afterwards
rich-c: except when Frances used IE next day, the taskbar jumped to the right of the screen on her
rich-c: sorted that out, but on the next use IE opened with the button bar missing
rich-c: restored that, but on the next use my home page had been changed
WB: Changed to what?
rich-c: microsoft redirect to msn.home
Pamela: what was the bookmark for, Dad?
rich-c: I use my own ISP as my home page
Guy B.: Same here.
Pamela: Ditto.
rich-c: anyway, it seems they planted a Java bean on me
Guy B.: A Java bean?
Pamela: A what??
rich-c: I think I may have got rid of things now
rich-c: Wille, can you explain it, or shall I?
WB: a small java program that can excute under a java VM
Pamela: Is it like a virus?
rich-c: and can sneak past an anti-virus, Zone Alarm and most other defences
Guy B.: It's bad enough that this Naked Wife virus is going around and fortunately we didn't get a work. This is the first I heard of a Jave bean.
WB: the program can be made to give orders to a web browser basically sending you wherever the programmer wants you to go.
Guy B.: A Java bean. This must be new.
Pamela: Oooh. Nasty.
rich-c: seems the website I wanted has been usurped by a highly malevolent booby-trap
WB: That is how they open multiple windows to different sites in your web browser
Guy B.: Ah, is there a way to stop it?
WB: Java beans have been aound since Java
rich-c: right - they even managed to open a second copy of IE on me - and Microsoft says that's impossible
Pamela: this is starting to sound like a bad batch of coffee
rich-c: I am told that Dr. Solomon's anti-virus will intercept any irregular OS calls before any damage can be done
Guy B.: A real bad batch of Java programming.
WB: Basically they are not bad. Porn sites use them to keep the user looking and accessing different sites.
rich-c: well, if it can get through Virus Scan, Zone Alarm, IE's security net and a few other things, it is BAD MEDICINE
WB: Hoping that someting will spark your interest.
Pamela: Like I said, nasty
rich-c: and if it can tamper with my screen and even open a second copy of a program, that really shakes me
WB: a java bean is not a viurs therefore most scanners cannot find it.
Pamela: what was the website, Dad?
rich-c: right - I gather that's why Dr. Solomon's works, it looks for different things in different places
rich-c: DONT TRY IT - but the website should have been ultimatef!.com
WB: Java beans are used all over the net for different activities
Pamela: okay.
rich-c: the web address that came up was, I think
rich-c: Willie, I know; the nasty part is that if you disable Java you miss all the good stuff
rich-c: in fact without Java we have no chat here
WB: Exactly!
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to james
james: morning :)
rich-c: One of my buddies says if you hit a web taxi, give it teh three-finger salute; it's the least damaging and risky way out
Guy B.: Hi James
Pamela: Good morning, James - want my cold? I'm trying to find a taker - I don't want it any more
rich-c: hey james, good mornj9ng to you
WB: Java Beans can hook into different structures like netscape's live connect
WB: Hello James
james: you can keep your cold pam :)
james: hi wb :)
james: how's it going guy?
Guy B.: James, were talking about Java beans. Seems Rich ran into one.
Pamela: real cheap! Ya sure?
james: pam - very :) i don't have time to get sick ;)
Pamela: Darn.
james: yeah, i read the e-mail.
rich-c: anyway, Willie, if you want to share my experience with your students, feel free
Pamela: I will also share it at work so IT knows about it
rich-c: yes, and it seems you may have lucked into the right defence against it, Pam
Pamela: Oh? You mean Doc Solomon?
rich-c: you got it
Pamela: Actually, you got it, but I do thank you
rich-c: might even go out and buy myself a copy, if I can find it
WB: Java Beans can be good or bad depending on what they are used for
james: sort of like marijuana
rich-c: yes, in fact the good ones really enrich the net experience
Guy B.: Still luck on uploading my webpages. Seems I still can't connect. Should I try another FTP program?
Pamela: I will keep an eye out for another copy when I'm out and about for you
Guy B.: That's no luck on the uploading the webpages.
WB: You can create who;e programs to be contained in a Java Bean and use it to bridge the gap between to incompatible applications
rich-c: it's OK, I want to check the Network Associates website first
james: guy, you might want to try wsftp
Guy B.: How good is that?
WB: Most Java beans are beneficial
moved to room Meeting Place
james: works fine for me, but i used to do uploads at a unix prompt so it depends on your experience. it's pretty straightforward though.
changed username to Ron
rich-c: hello Ron
Guy B.: Hi Ron
Ron: Hi guys
james: still shakin' ron?
Ron: Just here briefly to say
Pamela: Good evening, Ron - any more shakin' going on?
Guy B.: Ok, I'll check it out.
Ron: that tonight I have to go out, and will be unable to participate
Ron: regrets
WB: Hello Ron
Pamela: Have to?
Ron: nope, no more shakin... all's quiet, but we're going to die of thirst
james: if you go to and key in wsftp it should return about 12 sites where you can dl it.
Guy B.: So you will be here for say 5 minutes.
rich-c: well, maybe you can make it Saturday, ron
Ron: no snow on the mountains to give us water
Ron: no, Guy, not even that
Pamela: Want some of ours?
james: yeah, like bc of all places would ever have a *shortage* of water
Pamela: We have spare.
Guy B.: Ok, I'll go there now. Be right back.
Ron: hey! right ... yes I heard, anyway all, sorry to cut and run
Pamela: Do come back when youcan stay some time, okay?
james: slam bam thank you mam ron mitchell is leaving!
Ron: right? sorry about that
Pamela: I feel so used
Ron left chat session
rich-c: see you Saturday?
james: take it easy ron :)
Pamela: I don't think he saw that, Dad
WB: Ron has left the building!
rich-c: no, he was gone as I hit return
Pamela: 30 second Ron - interesting
rich-c: oh well, I be sending out a mailing list reminder anyway
Pamela: Two days a week - I'll never get anything done
Pamela: Guess I 'll have to start taking my naps earlier.
rich-c: don't know what I'll do when the football season kicks in
rich-c: or if racing extends back into Saturday
james: unfortunately saturday at 3 pm. est works out to sunday mornings at 4 a.m. for me so i can't make it.
Pamela: I can see where that would be a bit awkward, James
rich-c: yes, we'd figured that out - it is a little unreasonable for a workin' man
Pamela: Once football season kicks in, you'll have to employ some good old fashioned technology and tape stuff
rich-c: yes, though I still have a couple of tapes from last fall to watch
Pamela: And I thought I was behind
rich-c: seems I spend my spare time these days shovelling snow
james: so are you the one to blame for sending all this snow my way rich? :D
Pamela: Imagine that. Shovelling. You'd think it had been snowing around here or something
rich-c: yeah - enjoy your walk to work, daughter?
Pamela: I hear we broke a record for most days in a row with snow on the ground - the old one was 92
james: i think toronto has been running a snow deficit for awhile though ;) payback time :D you'll get no sympathy from an ottawan.
Guy B.: Ok, I'm downloading ws_ftp Le right now.
rich-c: yes, I think today I was scraping on a layer laid down early in December
Pamela: Remember, Dad, I drive to the subway, walk 100 yards to the entrance, take the subway, and walk another 100 yards to the office
rich-c: you hope to drive to the subway. sometimes JP has other ideas
Pamela: We haven't dug out from '98 yet - what snow deficit?
james: hey has anyone else noticed that "chairman of the U.S. Coalition For Fair Lumber Imports" last name is Wood? ;)
Pamela: I haven't left the car at home yet this year, Dad
rich-c: no, but somehow it figures
Pamela: I'm finally learning to drive in this mess
james: winter driving is so much fun.
rich-c: yes, if it weren't for all the other drivers who haven't learned yet
Pamela: Well, I don't know if I 'd call it fun, but it's definitely a learning experience
Pamela: Where did you get that tidbit, James?
rich-c: yes, you do summer practice in the Dodgem rink
Pamela: Exactly, Dad. You see, that Wonderland Season's Pass is good for something after all
james: the one about the guy's last name being Wood? i'm reading globe and mail right now. they just happened to mention his name
rich-c: you been reading the Canadian papers online, James?
james: yeah, i try to keep up every now and again :)
Pamela: Gotta get back in the swing of things, James - you'll be here in three weeks or so
rich-c: the Globe has decided to deliver us a daily freebie for the next month or so
rich-c: man, are we inundated with two big thick papers a day
Pamela: Misplaced the couch again, huh?
rich-c: you should see some good stuff, james - there's a big circulation war among the Toronto dailies at the moment
WB: I am sorry ladies and gentlemen. Time for me to go home. By the time I get there you'll will be gone. Take care. See you Saturday and may God bless
Pamela: Yeah, most people simply pick up the weekday freebies instead of spending five bucks a week on the real thing
rich-c: National Post is offering free movie tickets and a draw for unlimited season pass for two for a year
WB left chat session
Pamela: Good night, Willie - nice to hear from you - oops - he's gone
james: well, i doubt i'd have time to read more than a few articles.
rich-c: look for you Willie, it's been a while
Guy B.: Bye Willie
Pamela: And a years worth of birdcage lining.
rich-c: I must admit to doing a lot of skimming, but there's too much good content to ignore
Guy B.: Ron sure left pretty fast.
Pamela: I think James said it best.
rich-c: well, it was graceful for him to come on at all, even if only long enough to say hello
Pamela: Trouble is when I try to do that, I get hooked and end up staying for two hours.
rich-c: funny you should say....
Pamela: Imagine.
james: oh yeah - a friend of mine is coming over and he's going to get this e-commerce stuff going with me.
Pamela: I have given up watching TV on Wednesdays and any pretense at a social life.
rich-c: you mean your new internet connection? how's that progressing?
james: we may hold of on the connectivity for a bit and do just web development. we can do all that on our local servers without being
james: connected. i'm still going to pursue getting people interested though.
rich-c: well, if there are many users in range and you can beat NTTs prices, you should do well
Guy B.: Got it downloaded. Now I've assembled my new Athlon and I'll be firing it up for the first time this weekend.
rich-c: OK Guy. I you see blue smoke, pull the plug
james: yeah. the problem here is mostly one of demographics.
Pamela: Bet you'll be glad for the speed, Guy
Pamela: If you see drool on the screen, that's just me.
Guy B.: Why would I get blue smoke? It will be an 850.
rich-c: don't know what they're like in your prefecture, james, though I gather it's suburban to exurban
rich-c: they give off grey smkoe?
Pamela: That's awful, dad
Guy B.: It's already burned in. All I have to do is setup the CMOS, install Windows 95 and the drivers.
james: it's down right non-urban. one in 2 people is a farmer over 50 or so it seems.
rich-c: those are not the prime demographics for a startup ISP
rich-c: I dunno, when I play in the guts of a computer I always expect blue smoke
rich-c: and am always mildly astonished when I don't end up getting it
Pamela: I think it's time I packed it in, folks. My meds just kicked in and I'm starting to fade.
Guy B.: The only thing I'll probably change is the fan. It was using a 3 pin socket until my dual heat sink fan took both 3 prong plugs. There is a bigger fan to keep it cooler, but I'll have to change it for a 4 pin plug from the power supply.
rich-c: OK Pam, see you Saturday then?
james: no not really but i'm going to focus on businesses. even 1% of 8000 people is 80 so there's a chance i could get a large
Guy B.: Ok Pam, see you next week or Saturday if you make it there.
james: enough customer base
Pamela: Possibly. Good nite, all. Good luck with the new system Guy, we'll be watching for the explosion.
rich-c: Nite Pam
Guy B.: I didn't have one with the P133, so I won't with the Athlon.
rich-c: you're dealing with a computer, Guy. Expect the unexpected
Pamela: I'm gone.
Pamela left chat session
Guy B.: Bye PAM
Guy B.: The only thing I'
Guy B.: The only thing I'll expect is software trouble. That's why I'm keeping the P133 as a backup.
rich-c: never mind Guy, I'm just jealous
james: hardware problems are actually not all that common. it's almost always software, and usually windows.
Guy B.: You always like to give me a hard time. That's what keeps you going.
rich-c: I'm pretty ripe for an upgrade but can't make up my mind on what's appropriate
rich-c: you're onto me!
rich-c: seriously, Guy, the only folks we tease are our good friends
Guy B.: The only hardware item I had to get and I had it was a floppy cable. I'm hooking a 5 1/4 drive as well as a 3 1/2. The cable that came with the system had two plugs for two 3 1/2 inch drives.
rich-c: ah yes, remember when 3.5" drives came with adappters to 5.25" drive plugs?
Guy B.: I know, now your lucky if you can find one.
rich-c: I went after one a couple of months ago. I found a shop with two.
rich-c: couldn't get the owner to pay me to haul them away, though, Just got them free.
Guy B.: When I strip the 386. I'm keeping all the cables that are with that computer.
james: did anyone take don bueltman's adam stuff? i was quite frankly, a little annoyed after he listed it for sale to the group
rich-c: hell, keep teh whole computer, it's good for something
rich-c: after all if the new stuff conks out, you can still get on the net weith a 386
james: twice no less, and i offered both times to take it and cover shipping. he then posts a third message asking people to come pick it up.
rich-c: I work on the theory that if Win95 crashes, I still have the Win3.1 partition to keep me going
rich-c: as you know, james, packing an Adam for shipping is not a fun job
james: yes, and that's fine. he could have said that at the outset instead of offering it to me twice.
rich-c: I think Don overwestimates the local interest in Adams
Guy B.: I've found from New Deal that I can run Geoworks Ensemble on a Pentium. They gave me the instructions on how to change the Geos.Ini file to make it run on a faster computer. They took over the rights to Geoworks. The website is
rich-c: what is Geoworks?
james: i think he may have trouble getting someone to pick it up. if i were him, i'd sell it on e-bay.
Guy B.: Geoworks Ensemble is like Windows except that it runs under Dos.
rich-c: I don't think he wants to bother. I think he's getting lazy
rich-c: so does Windows, Guy. It's just less apparent in 95 than in 3.1
rich-c: or are you saying that it's a sort of Windows replacement interface?
james: anyways, i should go eat lunch. have a student coming this afternoon :) cheers all!
Guy B.: Geoworks has their own suite of programs. A word processor, spreadsheet, database, a text editor, drawing program.
Guy B.: Bye James!
rich-c: bye now, james
james: take it easy :) less than three weeks now until our visit :D
rich-c: well, Windows doesn't have a spreadsheet
rich-c: we are waiting with batede breath, james
james: looking forward to meeting you! hopefully will be on again next week.
Guy B.: Well, Geoworks Ensemble is different from Windows.
rich-c: see you then, james
james: *poof*
james left chat session
rich-c: is that something that started life as a descendant of the old Commodore GEOS system?
rich-c: Or is it more like the PC Tools package?
Guy B.: Sorry, I'm hearing some sort of popping next store and it's scaring the dog.
Guy B.: Next door that is.
rich-c: wondering whre you had got ot
rich-c: long as the bullets don't come through the wall
Guy B.: I don't know, but it seems when I have the stereo on is when it starts. I'm also ready to call the police.
rich-c: maybe they don't like your stereo and that's their way of letting you know
Guy B.: Well, I'll turn it down.
rich-c: perhaps you should consider earphones
Guy B.: I can't with the implant.
rich-c: that's what Frances or i use often with the stereo or tv
rich-c: no earphone or such that will work with those?
rich-c: usually here one of us wants to read when teh other wants to listen to music or watch tv
rich-c: so earphones help us avoid family friction
Guy B.: I do have an audio input selector and that will work with Walkmans or a portable CD player.
rich-c: usually the input from them is teh same as from a tv or boombox earphone jack
rich-c: of course you would lose most of the stereo effect
Guy B.: That's true. But, I maybe looking for a new place later on this year or next.
rich-c: Better neighbours, more convenience. or just general principle?
Guy B.: Well, in part need more room altogether.
rich-c: problem is, many landlords don't like pets and won't allow them
Guy B.: There are some that do allow them and with an extra deposit for them. That's what I've done with this place.
rich-c: I guess a house is not in your future plans
rich-c: you're off, Guy
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Guy B.
Guy B.: Got knocked off. Can't consider a house at this time.
rich-c: Know what you mean. Ptrices are atrocious
rich-c: Our house would now sell for 15 times what we paid for it in 1965
Guy B.: Even though interest rates are dropping, I need to save more and I still have one credit card left to pay off and then I save up for a condo.
rich-c: It takes a while. We rented for 12 years before buying
rich-c: Mind you, when we did we had over a 50% down payment
rich-c: but that was with the two of us working and really saving seriously
Guy B.: That's a pretty long time. Wow, the most you need is 20%
rich-c: here you can actually do it for as little as 10% but the mortgage is a killer
Guy B.: Then you have to buy the PIM.
rich-c: PIM?
Guy B.: Rich, I'm going to get off and call the police. I'll try to see you this Saturday,
rich-c: OK, good luck,see you then
Guy B. left chat session
rich-c left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to dave c
dave c left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dave C
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Colecoguy > chat > 2001-03-07
Send comments to I am Dale Wick