> chat > 2001-05-16

Chat for 2001-05-16 21:00:00

Macoto: Hello
Macoto left chat session
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changed username to WB
changed username to rich
rich: hi willie
WB: Hello Rich
rich: you're on early - well done
WB: How are you doing
rich: pretty good for an old guy - and you?
WB: Getting along fairly well
rich: still windy in teh Windy City today?
WB: Windy and wet
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dale
rich: that's our forecast for tomorrow - they said you were sending it to us
WB: Hello dale
Dale: Hi all. I'm still at work
rich: Hi Dale
rich: now you can fix the server if it getss sulky
Dale: I just thought I'd pop in and check to make sure you got started okay.
WB: Iam at work also
Dale: I'll be back later.
rich: Dale, I'm likely going to Cleveland Dominion Day weekend
Dale: How are you WB?
rich: anything you want taken over in advance?
WB: Ding well Thank you.
WB: Doing well
Dale: I'll be driving, and my Jeep has lots of cargo room I think.
WB: How are you doing Dale
Dale: Busy at work, but I'
Dale: I'm getting excitend about the upcoming AdamCon.
rich: OK, Dale, but if there's anything you'd like the guys to have ahead of time, let me know
WB: I wish I could go to Adamcon, but alas I have to work
rich: what sort of presentation are you planning, Dale?
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changed username to james
WB: Hello James!
rich: hello james, right in on time I see
Dale: Rich D said that he wants everyone to present something atypical.
james: morning :) i'm early today, which is to say, on time for a change :D
rich: Pam sends her regrets, james - other prioities tonight
Dale: So, I thought maybe I'd present a 3 part series on making hardware for the Adam...
rich: now that ought to be fun, Dale
Dale: though I still have to get the topic approved by him and slotted in.
james: no problem, rich. how are you?
rich: doing fine, james
Dale: I'm hoping by the third part to be able to do some hands on circuit interfacing.
rich: must admit I wouldn't mind picking up some clues on the subject
james: sounds like some interesting topics will be covered at the convention
rich: yes - sure you can't get the plane to make an emergency landing or something, james?
Dale: The best part is that we might be able to borrow all of the components necessary from the CWRU for the weekend.
rich: yes, there are definite advantages in having someone with access to a lab as host
james: wish i could but my brother is here for three months, my friend / new business partner is coming next month and i'm now tight for cash
rich: Willy, do you have to work Saturdays and/or Sundays?
rich: gotta sign up some more students, james
james: well, the money isn't so much the problem as the first two items. i've got 70 students now.
WB: Unfortuately Yes! I am supervising new adjuncts
rich: that's OK, in Ontario a teacher's standard for teh day is about 120, maybe more
james: 120 per day? i had a lot of teachers that certainly didn't deserve that much.
rich: well, actually that number is low - there are allegedly not over 22 students per class
rich: but that's just another government lie - the number is higher
Dale: WB, quite a few people pop in for a day or two as time allows.
rich: and they teach seven periods a day some semesters
james: that's pretty busy. 22? i was never in a class that small. wonder how they came up with those figures..
rich: as I said, more government lies...
james: opened up the adam last night and put in a connection for a new power supply.
rich: when I was teaching, that was the nominal limit, but some classes ran over 30
rich: WB, I seem to recall rading the ideal class size is 15 - does that sound right to you?
james: the classes here are quite large too. 35 or so or something like that in high school.
WB: The ideal is 15!
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rich: here, teh average was 22, but a lot of shop and specialty classes were small
changed username to BobS
BobS: Howdy guys!!!
rich: WB, that's what I thought, small enough for close observation, large enough for interaction
WB: If the class is to large it becomes difficult to teach
rich: hello Bob!
WB: Pure Lecture classes are an exception.
BobS: sorry to be late, but busy, busy, busy yaknow
rich: of course, WB, it depends on the grade level
rich: our university lectures could be huge, but there were small tutorials to balance
WB: I once had a Classical Mythology class where the professor was teaching 1000 students
Dale: Hi ya Bob.
WB: hi Bob
BobS: 'lo Dale! :-)
rich: a thousand???? Yikes!
WB: The mid-term and final were all multiple guess
rich: those hadn't yet come into fashion when I attended university
Dale: Bob, did you get a check to figure out shipping on that board?
Dale: I had a intro course something like that, but we had a TA (teaching assistant) for every 30 students.
BobS: no, forgot..... :-(
rich: WB, no way you can get strategically sick for three days in July?
james: dale, any word on the manuals we were talking about last week?
WB: No, I I am the Coordinator of the program. Getting sick is not an option!
BobS: Dale, will have to visit post office, their website shows $2 more for economy 4-6 week than airmail 4-6 day cost.......hmmmmmm
rich: I know what it's like - the price of being lord of your own domain
rich: are you talking abou the US Snail, Bob?
BobS: yes......
BobS: I don't "get" it
rich: you pretty well have to download the whole freakin' pdf file to work it out
rich: the problem is that there's a big price break at four pounds
rich: but get into foreign, note the Canada column
rich: and if you're under 4 lbs. look at "small packets"
james: i'm going to have to go soon, if anyone is interested in my power supply mod, i'll have pics on my webpage tonight.
rich: I can tell you, though, that all post offices seem to be getting unconsionably greedy about anything that corsses a border
Dale: James, I've looked a little, but I still have more looking to do.
rich: sounds like fun, jame. try to remember to look
james: i think you'll find it interesting :)
BobS: that's why it might be just as easy to jsut breing it to ADAMCon with me in July
james: thanks dale.
james: see you all later!
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Dale: Bob, I'm hopinh to get it in time got the next MTAG meeting on May 26.
changed username to rich
BobS: by james
BobS: bye james
BobS: am I stillhere?
BobS: ok will send it out!
WB: I have to be going also good people! See you next week!
WB left chat session
BobS: ok willie see ya
Dale: I'll check it out James. Can I put your article in the nexst MTAG newsletter?
Dale: Did anyone notice that I added a couple of "new" things on the homepage?
BobS: no........
Dale: (actually old things that I'm now mirroring, since the originals are now gone).
BobS: say what?????
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Dale: I added some content from Jeff Frohwein.
changed username to rich
Dale: And Geoff Oldman's' transcription of the EOS Programmer's Manual ...
rich: maybe I should change my handle to "Reboot"
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Dale: with formatting updates from me.
changed username to Guy B.
rich: hello Guy
Guy B.: Ok, I'm here.
rich: hey Dale, what did I miss when I crashed?
BobS: hi Guy!!!!
Guy B.: Dale, you did a nice job on the website.
rich requested to ban rich
Guy B. confirmed ban
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changed username to rich
rich: looks like I keep my evil twin - removed it and got booted
BobS confirmed ban
Guy B.: Looks like Rich keeps getting knocked off.
BobS: you got to be NICE to Dale Richard, or......WHAM!!!!!
rich: not sure I like that particular phraseology out of Chicago...
rich: it has certain disquieting historical connotations
Guy B.: In case you want to know. I'm still using the P133, but the Athlon is almost ready for the Internet.
Dale confirmed ban
Dale: I've lost touch with Jeff Frohwein.
Dale: Thanks Guy. You noticed the changes?
rich: if you were any slower, Guy, you'd catch up to me
Guy B.: Well, don't worry. I will eventually.
rich: oh, I can out=procrastinate some pretty advanced experts
Guy B.: We lost James.
rich: just before I got dumped, he said he was going anyway
rich: maybe somehow he hit my exit button instead of his own
Dale: I'll check back in in half an hour.
rich: see you later then, Dale
Guy B.: OK, most of us should be here.
Dale left chat session
rich: all two plus two of us?
BobS: DALE!!!!! Address please to send package!!!!!
rich: he's gone goed, Bob
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changed username to hlm
Guy B.: Finally got the drivers downloaded for my AGP card. Transfered the file over. Ran setup and not only did it work, but i got the 800X600 display that I needed.
hlm: Hello All
BobS: HERMAN!!!! MY Man!!!!!
rich: hello there
Guy B.: Hi Herman.
hlm: 2 Rich's
rich: hey Herman, I expect to be over your way for the CART race
rich: anything I might bring over ahead of time for the 'con?
Guy B.: His evil twin, the result of him getting knocked off his ISP.
hlm: OK bring me some Good Beer :)
rich: and when I try to exorcise the demon, he kicks me off teh chat
rich: that's for teh 'con itself, but I'll consider it
hlm: yea SURE
rich: well, your border guys are prickly, and this trip I gotta bring a sampling for my cursor crony
hlm: OK Bob Will bring me some I can count on that
BobS: just act as if you are going on holiday and they won't bother are on vacation after all
BobS: heck we will jsut buy it there!!!!
hlm: see I told ya He will figure a way
rich: usually when I'm on holiday they are very easygoing - but some days are bad days
rich: and this time I'll be running solo, which always seems to bug them
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changed username to A voter in BC
hlm: yea they tthink you are gonna defect
Guy B.: That has to be Ron.
A voter in BC: Thank God we don't get as much government as we pay for
rich: finally made up your mind which was the lesser evil, Ron?
A voter in BC: it was tough, let me tell ya
A voter in BC: if I do this, then that, but on the other hand,
rich: at least you don't have to wait for the results - they were known weeks ago
A voter in BC: spent more time in front of the ballot than usual
A voter in BC: right
A voter in BC: Our Premier is toast
Guy B.: National elections?
A voter in BC: Provincial Guy
A voter in BC: and a dismal choice
Guy B.: Provincial. Like president, etc.?
rich: the only question is, will the NDP keep even one seat
A voter in BC: we have a Premier where you have a Governor
A voter in BC: no Presidents, this time
A voter in BC: the topic
A voter in BC: long live FLSHDIR.COM
Guy B.: OK, just like here in Illinois where we have a Republican governor who hasn't decided if he'll be running next year or not.
hlm: hope not it may take you guys 2 months to tell who won like us :)
rich: hey - where did my evil twin go?
A voter in BC: you remember the spurious chars I was yapping about last week
A voter in BC: well, that was all that was needed
A voter in BC: that's about it Guy. We have a left leaning Premier who's got himself in so much hot water, he was boiled up and washed up 3 weeks ago
A voter in BC: one damn fraud and scandal after another
A voter in BC changed username to Ron
rich: yes, conceding an election before the vote was even held - well, it was realistic, but unusual
Ron: well, we'll see how many seats it gets him
rich: I get the feeling he's lucky there's no minus quantities in these things
Ron: wise guru's out here are saying 2 out of 79 maybe
rich: otherwise he'd go into the next election beat alreasdy
Ron: Green Party is going to get more, they say
Guy B.: Well, we have just about what we have here. A governor who is linked to a scandel involving truck driver license bribes when he was Secretary of State and it's hurt him politically.
Ron: that's about it Guy
Ron: Don't think you can be powerful and honest at the same time
Ron: but then I'm jaded
rich: actually, Dosanjh seems clean - it was the three guys before him who were on the take
hlm: In Politics, they always seem to drag up something from your past, whether it is right or wrong
Ron: that's the sad part about it Rich.
rich: of course that could just mean he waasn't around long enough to get caught
hlm: just so it sounds good, and divides the vote
Ron: that's it Herman
Guy B.: Irony is, his is NOT been linked to any wrongdoing. Only the employees who were caught and the Feds aren't done yet.
Ron: but he has overall responsiblity right?
hlm: but it will somehow still smear him just because
rich: when you're where the buck stops, that's it
Ron: yup
Guy B.: He had the responsibility, but he had no knowledge of this until after he was elected governor.
Ron: trouble is, perception sometimes has little to do with truth
rich: yes, but why didn't he blow the whistle himself, instead of waiting for the feds?
hlm: I had a friend who was a local registra or whatever it is called for the DMV and she lost her business, because of 2 crooked employees, she got the blame for it
Guy B.: Someone in his office told him about it to his wife, but he didn't do anything about it until it broke thru the news media.
Ron: sounds like he might have had to take a bum rap
Ron: but take it he did
rich: blind eyes are guilty too
hlm: it was a she, but yes, she lost because she should of know what was going on
Ron: indeed
rich: sorry, Herman, I was taslking about the governor
Guy B.: So far, three Democrats have announced they are running in next year's election. But, the current governor hasn't announced his intentions yet.
Ron: Our curling group (lamenting the fact there is no curling) held a golf tourney this afternoon, followed by dinner - which is why
Ron: I was late.
Ron: Good time had by all
Ron: you guys south of the border know what curling is eh?
hlm: That is what had GK dying laughing.. I wired the bldg, and camera, etc, but vision wise, can not pass a test... kinda tickled GK
Guy B.: Nevered played it, but I've seen it. Looks like a tough game.
Ron: kinda like shuffleboard only played on ice
Ron: up here we play everything on ice
rich: even baseball
Ron: :)
rich: they keep reminding us with tapes of teh first Blue Jays game
Guy B.: Speaking of ice, our Chicago Wolves knocked Manitoba out of the playoffs and are going for their third Turner Cup finals.
Ron: Fight on Manitobans, fight on!
rich: which sport is that, Guy?
Guy B.: They were in first place for most of the season until the Wolves took it. It's IHL hockey.
Ron: was going to ask
Ron: International Hockey League
Guy B.: Yep.
rich: we don't talk about Blackhawks type hockey, do we?
Guy B.: Don't even ask about them.
rich: how's your basketball team doing?
Ron: so that would be Junior A hockey Guy?
Ron: or Semi - Pro?
Guy B.: They are pros, some are from the NHL.
rich: I think it's pro, Ron, one down from NHL
Ron: right.... seem to recall there was an eastern loop in that no?
Guy B.: Canada has Manitoba Moose.
rich: I believe there's talk of an IHL - AHL merger in the works
Ron: Manitoba Moose. well.....ok (trying to supress a grin)
Ron: Ok.... it was the AHL I was thinking of
Guy B.: Bob up there has Grand Rapid Griffins.
Ron: that one has at least 1 maritime team, Nova Scotia Voyageurs?
Guy B.: Yes, that may happen pretty soon.
BobS: yes, they aren't in things anymore wither
BobS: got beaten up and on, etc
Ron: sometimes those guys are meaner than their NHL counterparts, if you can imagine that
rich: well, our lacrosse team lost in the championship final - no three-peat
Ron: Out here we have the Western Hockey League
Ron: everybody from Medicine Hat to Spokane
Ron: Victoria, Kamloops
Ron: etc
rich: and our hockey team lost in seven to the Stanley Cup champs
Guy B.: What teams do you have there?
Ron: well Rich, you win some, you lose some
rich: but the basketballers are still in it
rich: and the Blue Jays wre looking good early on
Guy B.: Toronto hasn't been able to make the playoffs.
rich: which playoffs?
Guy B.: Hockey and didn't the Rapters get knocked out of the NBA finals?
rich: the Jays have won the World Series twice - more recently than Chicago, too
rich: the Leafs made the second round and the Raptors are playing second round now
Ron: Sent money to Dr. D. today for the Con
Ron: now I need an airplane
Guy B.: Oh I know. And the White Sox aren't doing well and the Cubs are in a little slump.
rich: who knows, they just might knock off Philly, too - Iverson or no
Guy B.: Going to send my last payment next week.
Ron: Looking forward to seeing all you guys
rich: reminds me I'd better get at it - no real reason for the delay
hlm: I'll probably send some shortly...
rich: probably just a sort of vague hope our dollar will go up a bit
BobS: AND,,,,us ya'll!!!!!!
Guy B.: Look for my updated website shortly. I'm going to add two links and a new file with three VBscript files.
rich: well, you can just walk down teh street, can't you, Herman?
Ron: I see the registration form lists XXL T-shirts...
Ron: and that is good
Guy B.: I ordered one in that size.
Ron: even XXXL\
hlm: Not quite I am real close to his LAB but the convention sire is on the west side of cleveland, and I live on the east side
rich: I assume by the way that the hotel is teh best price in Ohio
Ron: no doubt
Ron: is B
Ron: is BASIC still going Herman?
rich: that's why I booked there for my Dominion Day trip
Guy B.: I think Rich picked a good hotel this year.
hlm: Yea, it was the best we could come up with for price and service... it is a pretty nice place though
Ron: looks good in the pic
rich: The hotel is between the highway, the railway and teh airport
Ron: looks like a place where an ADAMCON could be held
rich: all they need is a stockyard upwind and they could add a KOA campground
Ron: Rich loves KOA
Ron: what was it you said, Rich......Krowd On Another?
rich: for the non-campers, it stands for "Kram on Another"
Guy B.: Then we can all go out there to his campsite.
Ron: close
hlm: GK checked on that also...
hlm: Not sure what the outcome was... Ya know he is an avid camper also
Ron: indeed he is
rich: anyway, I didn't hotel shop - figured if it had Herman's stamp of approval, I wouldn't find more bang for teh buck
Guy B.: When I was married. Jeanene and I use to go camping a few times during the summer and we even brought the dog. She loved it.
rich: is the hotel going to be feeding us at the 'con, Herman?
hlm: very true GK and I did the arm twisting there, and rich is handling the sessions, and the important stuff the MONEY
hlm: Yes sir all meals but Saturday nite
rich: who's planning the menu?
Guy B.: We sure haven't had that since Adamcon 04.
Ron: may I inject a word about BACON?
Ron: 'nuff said
hlm: We kinda planned the menu also, meaning GK and myself...
Guy B.: Amen on that.
BobS: :-)
hlm: not Saturday though that was an idea Rich has which sounds pretty good
Ron: nobody in this land of our from sea to shining sea, knows how to cook the stuff
Guy B.: We won't ask what's on there, just be sure we will like the food.
rich: lessee - pizza, southern fried chicken, lots of doughnuts...
hlm: it will be CHRISP
(Guy B. laughs heartily)
Ron: :)
rich: I'd be happy if they'd give me Dimplemeyers raisin bread toast for breakfast
rich: sorry, Dimpflmeieirs
rich: they are starting to sell it in Cleveland now
Ron: there's an idea Rich. Not familiar with the brand, but from what you're saying it must be good
hlm: But NO BODY Pours Beer Like AL Fitzgerald... we need to find him :)
rich: it's even parts of whole wheat flour and raisins
Ron: St. Louis Al?
rich: a dab of butter, soak in a little honey - NIRVANA
hlm: Yup that be him
Ron: you got me Rich. Sounds like it should be good for the blood sugar
rich: don't know about that, but it's great for the mood
hlm: no comments....great for the tast buds anyway
rich: one dose of that and even I can be mistaken for a normal human being
rich: especailly with coffee to match
hlm: NEVER
BobS: sounds like a sugar pill to kill ya!!!!!
Ron: that's right
rich: no - it's living, man
hlm: If only Canada realized we like coffee DURING THE MEAL and not AFTER iwe will do fine
Ron: I will have to remember that Herman
rich: and vice versa - much later, but twtice as much
Ron: this is something of which I was not aware
Ron: of
hlm: I am not a coffee drinker at hart... but I know SOME that will FIGHT FOR COFFEE
Ron: me like that only before 10 a.m.
rich: you don't have to give me my morning cup - especially if you want a preview of what Hell's really like
hlm: I think Rich and GK can drink it 24 / 7
Ron: computers go better with Diet Coke
rich: actually I can but don't - usually three cups, and two of tea, a day
Ron: Herman, do they have any Harvey's Hamburgers in Cleveland?
hlm: hold the DIET just send the COKE... and KOOLS ofcourse
Ron: or is that one of these Canadian things
hlm: I think we are really out numbered now Rich as smokers.... me You, sometimes Bob...
rich: and Pamela
hlm: oh Pam smokes
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rich: high stress job I think helps explain it
changed username to Dale
Dale: Hi all. I'm back.
Ron: Hey Dale!
rich: and welcome, Dalwe
BobS: DALE!!!!!! need your address for package!!!
hlm: it helps trust me... and as the day gets towards the end, I smoke more
hlm: Well hello Dale
rich: now that I'm retired I need it far less - I'm below half a pack a day
Dale: My shipping address. For non-courier it is 347 Hounslow Ave, Toronto ON M2R 1H4.
rich: make that North York, Dale, and annoy Mike Harris
Dale: Ron, did younotice that I posted some "new" documents on the home page.
hlm: I am about a pack a day, UNLESS I get a problem like today Had 2 boilers to wire, and the manuals got misplaced by the plumbers
Dale: If I wanted to be picky I'd use Willowdale.
rich: Bingo!@ Dale
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Ron: yes Dale, was there last night.
changed username to Guy B.
Guy B.: Ok, I'm back. Got knocked off.
rich: looks like Guy got bounced when you came in, Dale
Ron: good stuffe
Dale: Herman, are you there?
rich: maybe you've got a bug to report to Spaniel
hlm: Yes sir sure am
Dale: How much do you know about resistors?
Guy B.: At least I got connected at a higher speed now. I was at 16800, now I'm 37000.
Dale: Richard, has it been particularly flakey tonight?
hlm: not a whole lot... I am a old time electrician, not really into electronics, that would be Dr D
rich: well, I got crashed out earlier, just when you left
rich: so bad I had to do a hard reboot
Guy B.: Oh nasty.
Ron: Black, Blue, Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Brown, Violet, Grey, White
Ron: resistors
Dale: Can I ask you a question about LEDs?
rich: I've noticed that most of our "fall-offs" come when someone enters or leaves
Dale: That's right Ron.
hlm: possiblly
rich: don't forget the stripey ones, Ron
Ron: think I got Brown and Blue reversed
hlm: used to remember the values of the colors, but getting to old for that now
Dale: Ron, Jill says that that was a nice poem. <grin>
Ron: don't know if it would be too politically correct now, given that some engineering students are female
rich: Dale, is Spaniel still in business despite the shakeout?
Dale: Well, when using a resistor with 5V and a 1.7V drop resistor we need to use a 220 Ohm resistor...
hlm: and some are damn good at it Worked with a female installer for ADT, and she is also into electronics, and if she is as good at electronics as securtity systems, she is good
Dale: to get a long half life (say 100,000 hours). At least according to a web page I visited.
Dale: The calculation they do I think is based on Ohm's Law (I=VR) ...
rich: mmost electronics calculations are...
Dale: current equals voltage times resistence
Ron: could only remember P=EI
Ron: because I was born in PEI
Dale: Well, search spaniel still exists.
Ron: looking at the front page of your web site Dale with the P200
rich: that's surprising, given the competition in search engines nowadays
Ron: Who the hell is Jeff Frohwein anyway?
hlm: that one I will pass on.. I thought ya meant something simple...Now I stick to 0-600v that is my league
Ron: and why haven't we seen him at an ADAMcon?
Dale: He is a big figure in the emulators scene.
Ron: aha
rich: which of your web pages is this on, Dale?
Guy B.: Well, I going to get going. I may have a surprise for you guys either Saturday or next week. See you all, then.
Ron: Thes guys who write emulators amaze me
Dale: I've totally lost touch with him, but he spent some time communicating with Steve Pitman (whom I've also lots touch with).
hlm: Bob's son in law Doug is good with that stuff
rich: OK, Guy, though I'm not firm for this Saturday
Dale: I wanted to look at his web site, couldn't find it...
BobS: a Coleco Vision gamer nut
Dale: and so I posted what I had archived.
Ron: Doug is the son, I think Herman, Meeka is the daughter-in-law
Guy B.: That depends if I have to work this Saturday. Depends on the workload.
Ron: or am I wrong again?
hlm: OPPS got it backwards
Guy B.: Your right, Ron.
Dale: I've now made a formal mirror of all other Adam sites I could find.
Ron: whatever..... they both come to cons
Guy B.: Bye all.
rich: well, The Winston is Saturday, and may be on one of our cable channels
rich: don't know the timing, though
hlm: bye Guy
Guy B. left chat session
rich: anywhow, see you, Guy
Dale: The new articles are linked to off the home page
moved to room Meeting Place
rich: OK, got that bookmarked, so I'll go from there
changed username to Ron's Linux
Dale: It is really interesting to see what Jeff was thinking. Two years ago I foigured out some answers to some ...
Ron's Linux: showing off again
hlm: gonna try for Saturday... I can just never remember if I am not working... like PJ used to say, got a cas of CRS, can't Remember S....
Dale: of his questions, but I don't know if I ever contacted him.
rich: I'll send something around Friday, let everyone know the score
Dale: He did post those pages many years ago. I just reformateed them for the web.
Ron's Linux: speaking of PJ
Ron: has anyone told here about Cleveland?
BobS: got son Doug ( who comes to AC's) and son-in-law doug too.....cornfusin' eh?
rich: haven't heard squat from her for ages
Ron: oh Geez Bob, was just getting it straight
hlm: No I left that to Richard D, I / We found a few lists of addresses, and fowarded them to Dr D
Ron: ok
hlm: I could call though.. I am not a writer... I will call easier
rich: I assume she is still not using email
Ron: no. Last spoke to her just before Xmas
Ron: and she phones
hlm: be nice Bob.. you know I srrew things up royal
BobS: jsut remember SON Doug
Ron: Dale, just for your info, OS X can't do Java yet
Ron: have to use OS 9.1
Ron: Begone Alter Ego
Ron's Linux left chat session
hlm: yea, they are both Meeka is so close to ya I just picture as a daughter, so by default that bumped Doug back a notch
rich: interesting - was X a premature release, or is that an excuse to supply an earlier version for the hard cases who wouldn't upgrade otherwise?
Dale: Dooh! No Java yet!
BobS: well for heavens sakes Herman........ ;-)
Ron: yes Rich. There is a lot the ability to burn CD's , printer support, drivers of one type and another
rich: I know they are in the pipeline, but having to wait then download them is a pain
Dale: The thing is they've been delaying for like 6 years for this functinoality.
Ron: word is that it won't be done until Apple starts putting it on their new machines....... late summer
Dale: It is important to just get something out there, and they can refine it as they go along.
Dale: Otherwise they'll have to continue maintaining both indefinately.
Ron: that's right Dale
rich: yes, Microsoft has been doing that for years, and still has MILES to go
Dale: I know what it's like. It can be very hard to switch to a new code base.
Ron: well folks, time for me to put my political junkie hat on and turn on the TV
rich: it's all IBM's fault. They never should'a left CP/M
Ron: I have this morbid fascination with election results
Ron: my attention will be divided
rich: you don't need the tv, Ron. It's Liberals 79, rest ). The Globe and Mail predicted it
hlm: very true Rich
Dale: Ron, who do you predict for the opposition?
Ron: there's going to be an opposition?
rich: what opposition? They're eyeing the New Bruswick syndrome
Ron: thinking is that there may be one or two Non-Directional-Partisans
Ron: right.
Dale: If the signs on the streets of Vancouver are any reflection for the rest of the prov, then it will be hard to wrest a seat away.
rich: maybe Campbell will pull a McKenna and appoint someone from his own party to assume the role
Ron: could be
Dale: They did that in NB with the unamious government.
Ron: trouble is, I don't know what is meant by Liberal any more. Our Liberal is a former Socred Education Minister for God's Sake
Dale: The Green Party was starting to sound centerist based on the choices this time.
Ron: and I can't stand Gordon Campbell
rich: well, party lines in BC have always follwed pretty weird contours
Ron: exactly, ever since Premier Amour DeCosmos
rich: by today's standards, he was dull
Ron: they don't call us Lotus Land for nothing you know
Ron: I live in a province where a former Finance Minister is now in court on fraud charges
Ron: and doesn't think he did anything wrong
rich: well, at least he picked the right job to learn the ropes
Ron: :)
Ron: And not only that Bob S, I LIVE ON AN ISLAND!
Dale: Anyway as I was saying earlier, I was thinking of doing a 3 part session on designing hardware for the Adam...
Dale: with the hopes of a hands on for the third part.
Ron: right...back on topic.
Ron: I like that Dale
rich: probably thought he could use the local business ethics in his job
rich: I'm sure it will all go over my head, Dale, but I'll listen anyway
Dale: I've bought a bunch of components and have started making some prototypes of the project I'm working on for an unrelated thing.
hlm: that sounds interesting Dale
Dale: But it lends itself to a seminar on building Adam hardware.
Ron: anybody ever added a monitor to an expansion module 3?
Ron: Have a doc on it that Bob sent ages ago. Sill haven't done it yet
rich: going to talk about interfaces and the software to support them?
hlm: mine 2 Rich, but I will get SOMETHING OUT OF IT I am sure
Dale: Richard, I think that some of it will be suited to your tastes.
hlm: remember I am the SOFTWARE part of HLM-GMK
rich: well, as I said, I'm willing to listen, and sometimes something sticks
rich: good, I'll look over George's shoulder
Dale: Well, I'm going to break it into parts.
rich: (or under, maybe? he comes big)
Dale: The first part will be about logic, which will once and for all explain why ..
Dale: people say that everything in a computer gets down to zeros and ones,,,
Dale: even though the experience of a computer is very different.
hlm: yea, he is kinda big
rich: gee - I thought it was offs and ons
Dale: The second part will be on drawing circuits that represent the equasions from the first part...
Ron: (I had to do it)
rich: keep it clean, Ron - this is a family chat
Ron: oh, sorry
Dale: and the third part will be on building TTL based (hardware) implementations of the first two.
Ron: drivers, Dale, drivers
Dale: And of course how to communicate to the hardware will be in that last bit.
Ron: good
Ron: I will look forward to that
rich: we've lost Bob - did Guy take him out with him?
hlm: I will be glad to just master ADAMEM
Dale: Hmmm...
Dale: I didn't notice him go.
Ron: probably me occupying an extra seat at the table
Dale: Right Ron.
rich: could have been when you took out your evil twin, Ron
hlm: probably got kicked off
Dale: I'm just afraid that I'll have a 50 page handout. There is so much casual reference material that is useful.
rich: that's what laser printers are for, Dale
Dale: I guess so, Richard.
Ron: right.... or make a PDF file and put it up on your site
rich: or you can post it on your website and let us go fetch it later
hlm: put it on VIDEO like DR D did, and save the hand outs
Dale: I have a tonne of PDFs that I've downloaded from the semiconductor manufacturers.
rich: a PDF on a CD holds more and is cheaper to burn
Dale: Plus I have two books on adding hardware to the TRS-80. It covers a great deal on how to build interface projects for the Z80 based systems.
Ron: sounds like good stuff
hlm: yea finally joined the real world and got me a burner
Ron: congrat's Herman
rich: it's so easy to forget Adam is part of a whole group of computers with a common processor
Dale: Herman, a video is good for linear use, but the materials are references that you need to take with you shopping and while designing.
hlm: true very good point
rich: the only problem with PDF is that it produces such large files
Dale: I've got a massive collection of TRS-80 books, because Neil got his first one in 1979...
Dale: which is 6 years before
Dale: I got my Adam.
rich: your first laptop was from Radio Shack, but was it a TRS-80 model, Dale?
Dale: Rich, line drawings are actually quite compact. It is photos that don't work well in PDF format.
Dale: Yes, a TRS-80 Model 100.
rich: the pdfs I download tend to be fairly dense text files
hlm: The good years, before the hustle, and bustle of big Blue
Ron: yeah, back when there was some original thinking in the computer world
Dale: Also a Model 1 Level II, several Model 3s, and several Model 4s.
Dale: All of which were Z80 based, and could potientially run CP/M.
hlm: I had a c-64 and a Timex first.. and ditched them both together...
rich: some of it was too original - the TRS computers wre carefully rigged not to interface with anything
Ron: you ever hear Dale of something called OS-9 for the Trash 80?
rich: except for Radio Shack products and software, that is
Dale: I also had a Timex. It was Z80 based too.
Dale: I cdould learn assembly language once, and use it everywhere it seemed for a while.
Ron: One sits here ( a Timex) even as we speak
rich: I still have one kicking around, but nothing for it
Dale: My friend has a Coco (TRS-80 Colour Computer) when ran...
hlm: got mine free at the super market with sales slips, or simular I may of had to put a few bux up to get it
Dale: the multitasking operating system OS-9. It was pretty nice.
Ron: never got to use it. Sold my TRS80, without realizing that I hadn't included all the software
Dale: Richard, I beg to differ. They always has standard RS-232 serial ports, and could use standard PC disk drives...
rich: I thought they had a variant format, like the Adam?
Dale: C-64 just wasn't compatible with RS-232 signals. And they didn't use ASCII (at least not exactly).
rich: Was that Commodore trying to monopolize, or an artifact of the Motorola chip?
hlm: one thing for sure, our ddp's beat the hell out of that data recorder the timex had
Ron: just enough to screw thing s up
Dale: I don't think that Commodore really thought that people would want to connect their computers together.
rich: If I understand correctly, Apple products still want their own printers and monitors
Ron: strange eh?
Dale: Herman, in raw transfer speed, DDPs are faster than C=64 disk drives.
Dale: Of course the disk drives were much faster at seeking.
Ron: depends on the model Rich. Some will take a standard VGA monitor. Printers.... you right. The plugs are an entirely different shape
hlm: I had the old recorder like a tape recorder
rich: yes, whining through 60-odd blocks to get to the start point could be tedious
hlm: for the Timex though think it was the TI 99
Dale: Well, everone is converting over to USB printers (PC and Mac users both).
Ron: yeah
rich: yes, my Canon is USB capable though it's on my parallel port at the moment
Ron: I spent $90 bux on a USB/Parallel converter.
Ron: Dumb move
Ron: should have bought a new USB printer
Dale: You can now buy USB printers for about that price Ron. <grin>
Ron: I know
hlm: thinking of getting the fancy photo printer,/ USB / puter printer
rich: right, given the new ink cartridges that come with it, the net cost is near non-existent
Ron: gonna wait until OS X supports something lower than the high end
hlm: to read the media cards from my camera
Ron: meantime I do my printing with P200
Dale: Ron, do you have them networked now?
Ron: yes, but there's more to do
rich: other than it's a little slow, nothing wrong with a P200
Dale: So can the P200 act as a print server?
Ron: just bought a Connectix product called Double Talk. It's supposed to do combine Windows and Mac boxes
Ron: and Linux
hlm: problem is 2 cartridges, and you bought a new printer these days I got a lexmark and they don't seem to refil too well
Ron: still have to master the basics of networking under Linux
Ron: got them to the point where PING worked ok, but that's about as far as I got
Dale: I know that Linux can act as AppleTalk file server, but I haven't tried print server.
rich: believe there's a website called that might help, Herman
Ron: then there's SAMBA, which I need to know more about
Ron: just installed a version of SAMBA for OS X
hlm: ok will try it Rich thanks
rich: OK if I've got it wrong, drop me a note and I'll doublecheck
Ron: Liberals elected/leading in 14, Non-Directional Partisans elected/leading in 5
Ron: nobody else shows on the screen
Dale: Samba is trickey to install...
rich: it'll never last
Ron: early yet
Dale: but once you get it working it is a dream come true.
Ron: well working I will get it. (maybe with a little help from my friends at the North Island Linux User Group)
hlm: Dale is the broad modems really any better than regular 56K modems
hlm: Broad band that is sorry
rich: if you want fast downloads, Herman, there's no comparison
Dale: Yes, as much as 100 times faster.
Dale: Download a new version of Internet Explorer in minutes instead of hours.
hlm: not cable or DSL, just the regular braod band modems...for telephones
rich: but they are pricey and going up, and have a record of being troublesome
Dale: Of course it depends on other network traffic to some extent.
Dale: Wait...
rich: you talking about DSL, Herman?
hlm: I will try it because I can not get DSL in my area yet
Dale: Sold by whom?
Dale: There are 4 broadband technologies available in Toronto.
hlm: no I mean the so called broad band modem.... DSL is not available to me yet, my good FRIEND has it, but not me... my phone lines are too old in my area
rich: Cable, DSL, microwave and what, Dale?
Ron: DSL available here, but not near me. I'm not close enough to the Tin Can
Dale: They are cable modem, ADSL that is piggy backed in a voice line, ...
Dale: Satilite based download with telephone based requests, ...
hlm: I will just probably wait on DSL it will be her by the end of the year I am told
rich: They want $600/year before taxes for DSL and cable; don't know what Look charges for microwave, but it's close I believe
Dale: and line of sight dish to transmitting tower with either two way communication or telephone upload.
rich: yes, line of sight is the Look offering
Ron: doesn't work too well in this province
Ron: there's usually always something in the way
rich: I think I heard Star Choice may be offering satellite connection soon
Ron: they have to put relay's on mountain tops
Dale: The local companies are Rogers, Bell Sympaticio (and several ISPs), I forget , and Look Communications respectively.
hlm: I have a dish on my house, but service is not on... too cheap to pay for it I switched to cable and road runner (Cable modem) is oricy here
hlm: pricy I meant
rich: I finally bought a dish because the rates are reasonable - unlike cable, which is outrageously overpriced
Ron: you have a 500 channel universe Rich?
rich: not at the moment; I'm not even sure if my receiver is digital or analogue
Dale: Yeah someone like Star Choice is the right idea for Satelite.
rich: I think the latter cause it harmonizes with my tv and vcr
Ron: Liberals 32, NDP 4 Green 1
hlm: I got my dish years ago, and got ripped, but the cost of service is steadily rising.. now they wat $70+ for what I had a few years ago for about 45
rich: what are you buying, everything in the electromagnetic spectrum?
Ron: hmmm....
hlm: I got a dish the first year I got married, which was 5 yrs ago, and now it is too expensive to get the same package I had
Ron: waiting here for Shaw Cable to raise rates
rich: I'm paying $22/month for basic package of about 30 channels plus six sports - and that's Canadian
Ron: That's real good Rich
Dale: Richard, don't you miss the local stations?
rich: when you figure it would be $14 US. it does stand comparison
hlm: NO movie channels, and regular pkg... and local channels.. no sports, and no smutt
Ron: we get not much more than that, and we're paying $36
Ron: but then we're in the sticks
rich: I get all the local stations - but can also watch BCTV just like Ron is now
Ron: right..... actually CHEK Victoria.....same company
Dale: Well, cable modem/ADSL for $40 CDN/month make most Americans drool.
Ron: but then my Shaw Cable Internet service is $39.95 on top of that
rich: yes, but that's a bundled price - alone they're $50/month - plus taxes
rich: nice thing about satellite is you don't have the telecommunications special tax, either
hlm: you are right Dale... DSL here is about 40 BUT you still pay for phone line it is not perfected as it is supposed to be for voice
Dale: Rich, I'm assuming you get either broadband service from one of your other communications providers.
rich: I am still running a dialup 33.6 modem, Dale
Dale: I mean hypothetically.
rich: as for Bell, I won't even buy TouchTone, forget packages and DSL
rich: and I bought the stellite dish because it was a fair deal, unlike cable
hlm: wait you mean you still DIAL rich
Ron: brb
rich: yes
rich: even my computer gives off little pulses
hlm: OH SHIT I done heard it all... how does big blue handle dialing out... no problem
rich: all modem software gives you the option of pulse or tone dial
hlm: yea, but truthfully, I never tried it,and figured it half worked... atleast you breeze through the automated services whenyou call
rich: Bell put in tone dialling to cut their costs - then charged the suckers extra for the "special feature"
hlm: is Canada big on the automated systems when you call companies
rich: they want to cut their costs, give me the unit at a discount, not a premium
hlm: you are right
rich: yes, but my phone switches to tone at the press of a button
rich: so as soon as I connect, I press the button and get my private ticket to voice mail hell
hlm: OH ok so you have a new style phone, just refuse to pay for the TT service
rich: Bell won't accept tone dialling on my line (their petty pressure tactic)
Dale: Well, those seconds waiting for pulse dialing is worth the few cents a month, even if it is a scam.
rich: but once I've connected to a PBX, they aren't so snotty
hlm: here in Cleveland if you REVERSE the red and green wires, you have touch tone serv. I done it for years.... try that and see if works for you
Dale: The pulses are easier to do than DTMF tones. You just hang up for a very short period of time.
rich: when Bell offers Touchtone for free, I'll be generous and accept it
hlm: seriously try reversing the red and green wire from phone to jack and I bet it will break the dial tone using your touch tone phone
rich: Oops! Just looked at the clock. Gotta go, folks
Ron: yeah, me too.... time to turn exclusively political junkie
hlm: damn it is midnight... I too should go...
Ron: say goodnight all
rich: right on - good night, all
hlm: goodnite all
Ron: poof
rich left chat session
Ron left chat session
hlm: bite dale
Dale: Bye
hlm: nite
hlm left chat session
Dale left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rich > chat > 2001-05-16
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