rich-c: hey - I made it on Rich Drushel: Hello Richard, I see you got in today. rich-c: yes, I think my ISP got things sorted out rich-c: we couldn't get out of the website for a while last night rich-c: I guess he was working to configure the new caching server Rich Drushel: Glad to hear it was just local to your ISP, rather than all of Canada. Rich Drushel: Since Ron didn't appear last time, I was wondering if he were also affected. rich-c: well I don't really know what it was, I'm just guessing rich-c: with the internet you never know what is going on rich-c: Frances was online while I was watching the gfootball game rich-c: she said first she couldn't get Java apps, then the sites slowed down to a crawl, then she couldn't get out of Tamco rich-c: when she couldn't even get Google she figured things were a real mess Rich Drushel: Woo-hoo, just had a type 3 error in the Netscape session I had open as a test... rich-c: by the way, did you get my forward of my ISP's reply about the chat problem? Rich Drushel: It crashed. Rich Drushel: Yes, I did get the forward. rich-c: what's a type 3 error? Rich Drushel: MacOS error code...something low-level and fatal to an application. Rich Drushel: I'd have to look it up...but in general, 2-digit or lower MacOS errors do not bode well... rich-c: sort of Apple-flavoured Blue Screen of Death Rich Drushel: Hope my laptop doesn't die. Rich Drushel: Well, only BSOD for the Netscape session. Rich Drushel: I'm here in the lab, doing some more work on my paper...I just determined that a dataset left by a student colleague is garbage. rich-c: when I tried Netscape 6 in my attempts to get on t'other night, it froze up when I used "clear history" Rich Drushel: So I have to redo it...sigh. Rich Drushel: Netscape 6 is horrific and unstable, sad to say, I wish it weren't so...I would uninstall it. rich-c: oh dear, doesn't know how to run a database, or the data are faulty? Rich Drushel: Data are not what he say's they're supposed to be. Rich Drushel: I am putting together figures for our modelling paper. rich-c: oh - "misinterpretation". Maybe he plans a career of government grants Rich Drushel: I'm working on the panel of 3D-rendered images of a model run that this student did. Rich Drushel: Data from one graph clearly do not come from the same model run as the 3D images. Rich Drushel: Said student is out of town for 2 weeks... rich-c: on that, you're over my head - imaging is not my strong point Rich Drushel: So, I have to use a QuickTime movie of 60 images (which *is* correct) and measure some stuff directly off the images. rich-c: by the way, finally got the anti-theft out of the truck so it runs again Rich Drushel: haha Rich Drushel: Re: model rich-c: ? Rich Drushel: Think of it this way: model of slug swallowing is run with certain parameters. rich-c: OK, get it Rich Drushel: Output of the model is used by another set of programs to produce a 3D image of the anatomy. Rich Drushel: But the first model generates numeric data about the lengths of certain muscles in the model. rich-c: sort of like a cheapy MRI scan, with more resolution? Rich Drushel: A graph supposedly of the length of one muscle doesn't match the movie of 3D-rendered images I have, supposedly from the same sequence. Rich Drushel: So, graph came from a different run than the movie which we are supposed to publish. Rich Drushel: Since the muscle in question is also in the movie, I can just remeasure it off the frames. rich-c: isn't that just what you need, published in a reputable journal Rich Drushel: But that is more tedious. Rich Drushel: Yes, must be published in a reputable journal. Rich Drushel: Not "Transactions of the Swedenborgian Philosophical Society" :-) rich-c: considering the options, a tedious correction now is much better than dumping the error on your peers Rich Drushel: Yes...but I'm up against a Wednesday time deadline...this will be a 3-hour detour, minimum. rich-c: and your life is not oversupplied with 3-hourses to clean up other folks' messes Rich Drushel: Not only must figure be correct, but text analysis of figure...so I can't *write* the text 'til the figure is correct. Rich Drushel: Yes... rich-c: why do I get the feeling there will be a public hanging - drawing - quartering at CWRU soon? Rich Drushel: I am leaving here at 3:45, however: by prearrangement, all of us (save Christina) are going to the movies. Rich Drushel: Well, these things happen... rich-c: oh, I gave up going to movies when they first put commercials in theatres Rich Drushel: Thing is, this very same mismatched graph/picture have appeared in *2* public posters at national meetings of the Society for Neurosciences. rich-c: OUCH! Rich Drushel: Nobody caught it, not visitors, not my boss, not the student (who was a presenter). rich-c: when you inform him, point out confession is good for the soul Rich Drushel: These national meetings have 25,000 participants...so it's easy for things to get overlooked. Rich Drushel: Haha, he's already had one such confessional this spring: rich-c: yes, but sometimes folks come back at look at things later Rich Drushel: He was working with a Ph.D. student on the latter's dissertation. Rich Drushel: My guy was writing code to implement the other guy's algorithms. Rich Drushel: The resulting programs took weeks to run. rich-c: still, one wonders about his academic devotion Rich Drushel: One month before 2nd student's Ph.D. thesis defense, my guy found a typo in the program. Rich Drushel: Which completely invalidated all the results. rich-c: a few more like that and I'd wonder about his life expectancy Rich Drushel: Fortunately, undergrad classes were over by then, Rich Drushel: so a big computer lab with 25 computers was completely free. Rich Drushel: The fixed program was run continuously for a couple weeks on all computers. Rich Drushel: The new results were only quantitatively different from the old, not qualitatively. rich-c: how many repetitions would that involve? Rich Drushel: So, the written analysis was mostly salvagable, and only specific graphs of output had to be changed. Rich Drushel: Not sure if this will be meaningful to you...but the programs used what are called "genetic algorithms". rich-c: teh doctoral candidate was right, he was just given teh wrong numbers rich-c: algorithms yes, genetic algoriths - whassat? Rich Drushel: They simulate evolution...so a population of maybe 200 individuals is simulated, run through a test, scored, and then the individuals are "mated" and their attributes recombined. Rich Drushel: How well they do on the test determines how much of their attributes show up in the next generation. rich-c: Mendel Rules! Rich Drushel: You might run 200 generations...or 500 generations. Rich Drushel: At the end, you have a few individuals who do the task very very well. Rich Drushel: Then you have to analyze and explain why.
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changed username to Ron Rich Drushel: In the case in question, the bug could have catastrophically affected the scoring. Ron: Yo! rich-c: basically it does seem pretty straightforwarxd Rich Drushel: So high scores weren't really the "best". rich-c: hey Ron Rich Drushel: Everyone involved lucked out. Ron: what's happenin! Rich Drushel: Hello Ron. Rich Drushel: Tamcotec is working today :-) Ron: hi all rich-c: just discussing genetic algorithms - do you want to know? Ron: I see that Rich Drushel: Ha, we are the 3 Rs today. rich-c: yes, John seems to have got the caching server set up properly last night Ron: ah yea, the mysterious jungle drum beat first heard by Hironamous Algor Ron: ? rich-c: wasn"ty that Heironymous, or do you mean the Japanese guy? Ron: I dunno Rich Drushel: The only Heironymous I know is Bosch :-) Ron: anyway, don't allow me to drag down the discussion from whatever level it was at rich-c: teh only Bosch I know gave up stargazing to make auto electronics rich-c: now they call him "Sparky" Rich Drushel: Sparky was Chas. Schultz... rich-c: how about that, Charlie Brown Rich Drushel: And speaking of stargazing...tonight is the Perseid meteor shower. Northwest part of sky...best after 2 AM. Rich Drushel: Too bad there's a moon tonight... rich-c: I do not plan to stay up to watch the end of teh football game, so I'll miss it Rich Drushel: I'll watch a little from the back porch. Ron: wonder if my geography will affect timing Ron: we will certainly have clear sky here tonite Rich Drushel: It shouldn't too much, Ron. Ron: so that would be 2 am your time..... 11 pm mine? Rich Drushel: As soon as it's good and dark, you ought to start seeing a few meteors (maybe 10 PM). Ron: ok will have to have a look rich-c: I guess the leading edge of Earth will spin into it in a sort of "fixed" place, so the local time will be the same Rich Drushel: The "after 2 AM" is universal to your local time. Ron: um..... Ron: ok Rich Drushel: At that point, the earth where you're at will be rotating down into the path of the comet whose junk makes the meteors. rich-c: but there will be previews earlier? Rich Drushel: Yes, always a few. Ron: will be a nice nite to sit on the deck Ron: and observe comings and goings above Rich Drushel: When I was a boy I'd sit in a lawn chair, wrapped in blankets. Rich Drushel: Once in college, I laid out on the roof of our fraternity house. Ron: northwest part of our sky is right out back rich-c: we've done that on some of our camping trips, but city lights aren't great for meteor watching Rich Drushel: And in grad school, once I did the same on the 5th floor of a science building here. Rich Drushel: The bright ones always beat the city lights, but you need country dark for the dim ones, that's true. Ron: we have something in between. not as many lights as the big city rich-c: it's partly a matter of the dark adaption of you eyes, too rich-c: in the dark of a campground, the meteors become very bright and obvious Ron: best spot I ever saw was on Long Beach (west side of Vancouver Island). Stars literally jumped out at you Rich Drushel: The stupid Metroparks around here won't let you stay all night (in the nice dark country) to watch meteors. Ron: no extraneous artificial light rich-c: gives you a lot of sky, too Ron: ya rich-c: we got an aurora at the Quebec provincial campground at Gaspe Rich Drushel: When Hyakytake and Hale-Bopp were visible, I took my telescope to a nice place...and got harrassed by the park rangers. rich-c: it was dark and the campground's high with ocean overlook - lots of sky for the show Ron: Back when the earth was flat and there were dragons at either end I used to take hourly weather observations for Transport Canada Ron: For night observations we had to go outside and wait 10 minutes for eyes to adjust Ron: made for a good smoke break at the time Rich Drushel: I saw an aurora last year, was it around Perseid time? I can't remember...but it was spectacular. Like the phantoms flying out of the Ark in "Raiders of the Lost Ark". rich-c: a good aurora is a serious treat Ron: sounds like it might be worth watching Rich Drushel: Which brings me back to movies...I started to tell Richard that I was leaving at 3:45 to go with the girls to see a movie. Rich Drushel: "Cats and Dogs". Ron: Cats and Dogs? Rich Drushel: BTW, if you can see "A.I.", do it. Ron: who's in it Ron: yeah right! rich-c: sorry, I've sworn off movies Rich Drushel: Re: C&D, don't know, but the premise is a house full of pet cats and dogs which are fighting each other. Ron: sounds like a hoot Rich Drushel: Cats plotting to take over the world, dogs trying to stop them. rich-c: figgers Rich Drushel: "Own a dog, feed a cat" Ron: a cat will allow you to pay the mortgage and rich-c: except I thought the cats had done that eons ago Ron: keep the food dish full Ron: but you never own the place where a cat lives Ron: mostly I am tolerated by cats rich-c: recall a guy who called his dog DFC - Dog Food Converter Ron: David Cobley named his previous dog, "Dog's Body" Rich Drushel: If you like cats, and can take a joke (which has really fooled some folks who can't), take a look at http://www.bonsaikitten.com/ Ron: but I like DFC rich-c: one of the problems of advancing age is that allergies tend to surface rich-c: so I can't tolerate cats any ore and dogs are a mild problem Rich Drushel: My allergies (to ragweed etc.) all went away as I got older. rich-c: it makes life difficult when we're visiting Pam Ron: hmm Rich Drushel: I had weekly or biweekly shots for 10 years...and then at about age 16, poof, it went away. rich-c: and I think antihistamines are contra'd for my arthritis medication Ron: not sure if I want to go any further into Bonsai Kitten site Rich Drushel: hahaha Rich Drushel: fun with Photoshop :-) Ron: ok, that's better Rich Drushel: Our TV 5 news had a panicked story about them...they thought it was real. Rich Drushel: They are clueless... Rich Drushel: ...and so are some of the horrified people they interviewed. rich-c: most journalists these days are often clueless Ron: must admit to a twinge of disgust Ron: however Rich Drushel: As a biologist, I know that some of what they describe is impossible. Rich Drushel: So I wasn't worried about the kitties :-) rich-c: Frances spends half the morning these days talking back to the newspapers Rich Drushel: Now some Japanese have been trying to grow square watermelons. Ron: yes, I suppose you'd have some appreciation for what would work and what wouldn't rich-c: apparently they succeeded Rich Drushel: Put the young melons into square jars and let them grow into it, then break the jars. rich-c: yes, and sell them for ridiculous sums of money, from the reports Ron: you could increase the occupancy of airline flights that way Rich Drushel: But melons are already over-expensive in Japan (a cantaloupe is $100 US!), so this makes 'em even more pricey. rich-c: expensive, yes, but that sounds absurd Rich Drushel: It's true... rich-c: well, I know icewine that's $40 a bottle here can run $200 there Rich Drushel: That's why some of the "delicacies" featured on "Iron Chef" don't seem so special to Americans watching it. Rich Drushel: Corn on the cob and potatoes aren't common over there...so the "Corn Battle" or "Potato Battle" are big things. rich-c: of course we North Americans are spoiled rotten when it comes to cheap food rich-c: if you don't believe it, look at our waistlines Rich Drushel: Well, my 3:45 has arrived, so it's off to the theatre. Ron: yeah, the guy on the other side of the mirror is a fine example Rich Drushel: Glad your ISP is running again, Richard. Rich Drushel: So long to you both until Wednesday. Ron: enjoy the movie sir rich-c: OK Rich, enjoy the show and see you Wednesday now I'm back operational Rich Drushel: <poof> Ron: say hi to the girls
Rich Drushel left chat session Ron: so any idea what happened to your computer Rich? rich-c: wasn't my computer, it was my ISP Ron: o I see rich-c: he put in a new caching server and changed the configuration Ron: sounds like trouble rich-c: was all but offline last night getting it straightened up rich-c: but now everything seems back to the usual high standard Ron: these things happen rich-c: there's a reason I may be (with Pam) the only chatter who hasn't changed ISPs Ron: well, if you got a good one, stay rich-c: at $100/6 months unlimited use, we do pretty well Ron: good deal rich-c: and I can call up if I have a gripe and get a real human being - with authority to sort things out Ron: that is unusual Ron: can't say the same here rich-c: I think the new server is a continuation of his continued expansion - even in these times Ron: he must be doing well enough then rich-c: my impression is that his only problem is adding equipent fast enough to keep up with growth rich-c: he was complaining a while back that he was adding new customers faster than Bell could install new modems' Ron: My local fellow here sold out to a Victoria firm rich-c: damn furrin takeovers Ron: They still maintain the local office, but I feel no sense of loyalty Ron: Shaw's arrival in town a year ago last Nov changed things rich-c: well, you are now enjoying the joys of cable Ron: indeed rich-c: I just don't feel cable is worth $600 a year to me Ron: see that my brother just got back from his bike ride, and I'm about to be called for lunch rich-c: looks like time to pack it in, then Ron: yeah, I wouldn't go back now Rich, but in my more realistic moments, I wonder why I need it Ron: not that I'm much on reality Ron: yea see you Wed Rich Ron: good Lord willin' rich-c: I use mine quite a bit, but not that many bucks worth rich-c: OK, Lordf and ISP willing, I'll be there Ron: take care rich-c: you too - see you
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