> chat > 2001-08-11

Chat for 2001-08-11 14:00:00

rich-c: hey - I made it on
Rich Drushel: Hello Richard, I see you got in today.
rich-c: yes, I think my ISP got things sorted out
rich-c: we couldn't get out of the website for a while last night
rich-c: I guess he was working to configure the new caching server
Rich Drushel: Glad to hear it was just local to your ISP, rather than all of Canada.
Rich Drushel: Since Ron didn't appear last time, I was wondering if he were also affected.
rich-c: well I don't really know what it was, I'm just guessing
rich-c: with the internet you never know what is going on
rich-c: Frances was online while I was watching the gfootball game
rich-c: she said first she couldn't get Java apps, then the sites slowed down to a crawl, then she couldn't get out of Tamco
rich-c: when she couldn't even get Google she figured things were a real mess
Rich Drushel: Woo-hoo, just had a type 3 error in the Netscape session I had open as a test...
rich-c: by the way, did you get my forward of my ISP's reply about the chat problem?
Rich Drushel: It crashed.
Rich Drushel: Yes, I did get the forward.
rich-c: what's a type 3 error?
Rich Drushel: MacOS error code...something low-level and fatal to an application.
Rich Drushel: I'd have to look it up...but in general, 2-digit or lower MacOS errors do not bode well...
rich-c: sort of Apple-flavoured Blue Screen of Death
Rich Drushel: Hope my laptop doesn't die.
Rich Drushel: Well, only BSOD for the Netscape session.
Rich Drushel: I'm here in the lab, doing some more work on my paper...I just determined that a dataset left by a student colleague is garbage.
rich-c: when I tried Netscape 6 in my attempts to get on t'other night, it froze up when I used "clear history"
Rich Drushel: So I have to redo it...sigh.
Rich Drushel: Netscape 6 is horrific and unstable, sad to say, I wish it weren't so...I would uninstall it.
rich-c: oh dear, doesn't know how to run a database, or the data are faulty?
Rich Drushel: Data are not what he say's they're supposed to be.
Rich Drushel: I am putting together figures for our modelling paper.
rich-c: oh - "misinterpretation". Maybe he plans a career of government grants
Rich Drushel: I'm working on the panel of 3D-rendered images of a model run that this student did.
Rich Drushel: Data from one graph clearly do not come from the same model run as the 3D images.
Rich Drushel: Said student is out of town for 2 weeks...
rich-c: on that, you're over my head - imaging is not my strong point
Rich Drushel: So, I have to use a QuickTime movie of 60 images (which *is* correct) and measure some stuff directly off the images.
rich-c: by the way, finally got the anti-theft out of the truck so it runs again
Rich Drushel: haha
Rich Drushel: Re: model
rich-c: ?
Rich Drushel: Think of it this way: model of slug swallowing is run with certain parameters.
rich-c: OK, get it
Rich Drushel: Output of the model is used by another set of programs to produce a 3D image of the anatomy.
Rich Drushel: But the first model generates numeric data about the lengths of certain muscles in the model.
rich-c: sort of like a cheapy MRI scan, with more resolution?
Rich Drushel: A graph supposedly of the length of one muscle doesn't match the movie of 3D-rendered images I have, supposedly from the same sequence.
Rich Drushel: So, graph came from a different run than the movie which we are supposed to publish.
Rich Drushel: Since the muscle in question is also in the movie, I can just remeasure it off the frames.
rich-c: isn't that just what you need, published in a reputable journal
Rich Drushel: But that is more tedious.
Rich Drushel: Yes, must be published in a reputable journal.
Rich Drushel: Not "Transactions of the Swedenborgian Philosophical Society" :-)
rich-c: considering the options, a tedious correction now is much better than dumping the error on your peers
Rich Drushel: Yes...but I'm up against a Wednesday time deadline...this will be a 3-hour detour, minimum.
rich-c: and your life is not oversupplied with 3-hourses to clean up other folks' messes
Rich Drushel: Not only must figure be correct, but text analysis of I can't *write* the text 'til the figure is correct.
Rich Drushel: Yes...
rich-c: why do I get the feeling there will be a public hanging - drawing - quartering at CWRU soon?
Rich Drushel: I am leaving here at 3:45, however: by prearrangement, all of us (save Christina) are going to the movies.
Rich Drushel: Well, these things happen...
rich-c: oh, I gave up going to movies when they first put commercials in theatres
Rich Drushel: Thing is, this very same mismatched graph/picture have appeared in *2* public posters at national meetings of the Society for Neurosciences.
rich-c: OUCH!
Rich Drushel: Nobody caught it, not visitors, not my boss, not the student (who was a presenter).
rich-c: when you inform him, point out confession is good for the soul
Rich Drushel: These national meetings have 25,000 it's easy for things to get overlooked.
Rich Drushel: Haha, he's already had one such confessional this spring:
rich-c: yes, but sometimes folks come back at look at things later
Rich Drushel: He was working with a Ph.D. student on the latter's dissertation.
Rich Drushel: My guy was writing code to implement the other guy's algorithms.
Rich Drushel: The resulting programs took weeks to run.
rich-c: still, one wonders about his academic devotion
Rich Drushel: One month before 2nd student's Ph.D. thesis defense, my guy found a typo in the program.
Rich Drushel: Which completely invalidated all the results.
rich-c: a few more like that and I'd wonder about his life expectancy
Rich Drushel: Fortunately, undergrad classes were over by then,
Rich Drushel: so a big computer lab with 25 computers was completely free.
Rich Drushel: The fixed program was run continuously for a couple weeks on all computers.
Rich Drushel: The new results were only quantitatively different from the old, not qualitatively.
rich-c: how many repetitions would that involve?
Rich Drushel: So, the written analysis was mostly salvagable, and only specific graphs of output had to be changed.
Rich Drushel: Not sure if this will be meaningful to you...but the programs used what are called "genetic algorithms".
rich-c: teh doctoral candidate was right, he was just given teh wrong numbers
rich-c: algorithms yes, genetic algoriths - whassat?
Rich Drushel: They simulate a population of maybe 200 individuals is simulated, run through a test, scored, and then the individuals are "mated" and their attributes recombined.
Rich Drushel: How well they do on the test determines how much of their attributes show up in the next generation.
rich-c: Mendel Rules!
Rich Drushel: You might run 200 generations...or 500 generations.
Rich Drushel: At the end, you have a few individuals who do the task very very well.
Rich Drushel: Then you have to analyze and explain why.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron
Rich Drushel: In the case in question, the bug could have catastrophically affected the scoring.
Ron: Yo!
rich-c: basically it does seem pretty straightforwarxd
Rich Drushel: So high scores weren't really the "best".
rich-c: hey Ron
Rich Drushel: Everyone involved lucked out.
Ron: what's happenin!
Rich Drushel: Hello Ron.
Rich Drushel: Tamcotec is working today :-)
Ron: hi all
rich-c: just discussing genetic algorithms - do you want to know?
Ron: I see that
Rich Drushel: Ha, we are the 3 Rs today.
rich-c: yes, John seems to have got the caching server set up properly last night
Ron: ah yea, the mysterious jungle drum beat first heard by Hironamous Algor
Ron: ?
rich-c: wasn"ty that Heironymous, or do you mean the Japanese guy?
Ron: I dunno
Rich Drushel: The only Heironymous I know is Bosch :-)
Ron: anyway, don't allow me to drag down the discussion from whatever level it was at
rich-c: teh only Bosch I know gave up stargazing to make auto electronics
rich-c: now they call him "Sparky"
Rich Drushel: Sparky was Chas. Schultz...
rich-c: how about that, Charlie Brown
Rich Drushel: And speaking of stargazing...tonight is the Perseid meteor shower. Northwest part of after 2 AM.
Rich Drushel: Too bad there's a moon tonight...
rich-c: I do not plan to stay up to watch the end of teh football game, so I'll miss it
Rich Drushel: I'll watch a little from the back porch.
Ron: wonder if my geography will affect timing
Ron: we will certainly have clear sky here tonite
Rich Drushel: It shouldn't too much, Ron.
Ron: so that would be 2 am your time..... 11 pm mine?
Rich Drushel: As soon as it's good and dark, you ought to start seeing a few meteors (maybe 10 PM).
Ron: ok will have to have a look
rich-c: I guess the leading edge of Earth will spin into it in a sort of "fixed" place, so the local time will be the same
Rich Drushel: The "after 2 AM" is universal to your local time.
Ron: um.....
Ron: ok
Rich Drushel: At that point, the earth where you're at will be rotating down into the path of the comet whose junk makes the meteors.
rich-c: but there will be previews earlier?
Rich Drushel: Yes, always a few.
Ron: will be a nice nite to sit on the deck
Ron: and observe comings and goings above
Rich Drushel: When I was a boy I'd sit in a lawn chair, wrapped in blankets.
Rich Drushel: Once in college, I laid out on the roof of our fraternity house.
Ron: northwest part of our sky is right out back
rich-c: we've done that on some of our camping trips, but city lights aren't great for meteor watching
Rich Drushel: And in grad school, once I did the same on the 5th floor of a science building here.
Rich Drushel: The bright ones always beat the city lights, but you need country dark for the dim ones, that's true.
Ron: we have something in between. not as many lights as the big city
rich-c: it's partly a matter of the dark adaption of you eyes, too
rich-c: in the dark of a campground, the meteors become very bright and obvious
Ron: best spot I ever saw was on Long Beach (west side of Vancouver Island). Stars literally jumped out at you
Rich Drushel: The stupid Metroparks around here won't let you stay all night (in the nice dark country) to watch meteors.
Ron: no extraneous artificial light
rich-c: gives you a lot of sky, too
Ron: ya
rich-c: we got an aurora at the Quebec provincial campground at Gaspe
Rich Drushel: When Hyakytake and Hale-Bopp were visible, I took my telescope to a nice place...and got harrassed by the park rangers.
rich-c: it was dark and the campground's high with ocean overlook - lots of sky for the show
Ron: Back when the earth was flat and there were dragons at either end I used to take hourly weather observations for Transport Canada
Ron: For night observations we had to go outside and wait 10 minutes for eyes to adjust
Ron: made for a good smoke break at the time
Rich Drushel: I saw an aurora last year, was it around Perseid time? I can't remember...but it was spectacular. Like the phantoms flying out of the Ark in "Raiders of the Lost Ark".
rich-c: a good aurora is a serious treat
Ron: sounds like it might be worth watching
Rich Drushel: Which brings me back to movies...I started to tell Richard that I was leaving at 3:45 to go with the girls to see a movie.
Rich Drushel: "Cats and Dogs".
Ron: Cats and Dogs?
Rich Drushel: BTW, if you can see "A.I.", do it.
Ron: who's in it
Ron: yeah right!
rich-c: sorry, I've sworn off movies
Rich Drushel: Re: C&D, don't know, but the premise is a house full of pet cats and dogs which are fighting each other.
Ron: sounds like a hoot
Rich Drushel: Cats plotting to take over the world, dogs trying to stop them.
rich-c: figgers
Rich Drushel: "Own a dog, feed a cat"
Ron: a cat will allow you to pay the mortgage and
rich-c: except I thought the cats had done that eons ago
Ron: keep the food dish full
Ron: but you never own the place where a cat lives
Ron: mostly I am tolerated by cats
rich-c: recall a guy who called his dog DFC - Dog Food Converter
Ron: David Cobley named his previous dog, "Dog's Body"
Rich Drushel: If you like cats, and can take a joke (which has really fooled some folks who can't), take a look at
Ron: but I like DFC
rich-c: one of the problems of advancing age is that allergies tend to surface
rich-c: so I can't tolerate cats any ore and dogs are a mild problem
Rich Drushel: My allergies (to ragweed etc.) all went away as I got older.
rich-c: it makes life difficult when we're visiting Pam
Ron: hmm
Rich Drushel: I had weekly or biweekly shots for 10 years...and then at about age 16, poof, it went away.
rich-c: and I think antihistamines are contra'd for my arthritis medication
Ron: not sure if I want to go any further into Bonsai Kitten site
Rich Drushel: hahaha
Rich Drushel: fun with Photoshop :-)
Ron: ok, that's better
Rich Drushel: Our TV 5 news had a panicked story about them...they thought it was real.
Rich Drushel: They are clueless...
Rich Drushel: ...and so are some of the horrified people they interviewed.
rich-c: most journalists these days are often clueless
Ron: must admit to a twinge of disgust
Ron: however
Rich Drushel: As a biologist, I know that some of what they describe is impossible.
Rich Drushel: So I wasn't worried about the kitties :-)
rich-c: Frances spends half the morning these days talking back to the newspapers
Rich Drushel: Now some Japanese have been trying to grow square watermelons.
Ron: yes, I suppose you'd have some appreciation for what would work and what wouldn't
rich-c: apparently they succeeded
Rich Drushel: Put the young melons into square jars and let them grow into it, then break the jars.
rich-c: yes, and sell them for ridiculous sums of money, from the reports
Ron: you could increase the occupancy of airline flights that way
Rich Drushel: But melons are already over-expensive in Japan (a cantaloupe is $100 US!), so this makes 'em even more pricey.
rich-c: expensive, yes, but that sounds absurd
Rich Drushel: It's true...
rich-c: well, I know icewine that's $40 a bottle here can run $200 there
Rich Drushel: That's why some of the "delicacies" featured on "Iron Chef" don't seem so special to Americans watching it.
Rich Drushel: Corn on the cob and potatoes aren't common over the "Corn Battle" or "Potato Battle" are big things.
rich-c: of course we North Americans are spoiled rotten when it comes to cheap food
rich-c: if you don't believe it, look at our waistlines
Rich Drushel: Well, my 3:45 has arrived, so it's off to the theatre.
Ron: yeah, the guy on the other side of the mirror is a fine example
Rich Drushel: Glad your ISP is running again, Richard.
Rich Drushel: So long to you both until Wednesday.
Ron: enjoy the movie sir
rich-c: OK Rich, enjoy the show and see you Wednesday now I'm back operational
Rich Drushel: <poof>
Ron: say hi to the girls
Rich Drushel left chat session
Ron: so any idea what happened to your computer Rich?
rich-c: wasn't my computer, it was my ISP
Ron: o I see
rich-c: he put in a new caching server and changed the configuration
Ron: sounds like trouble
rich-c: was all but offline last night getting it straightened up
rich-c: but now everything seems back to the usual high standard
Ron: these things happen
rich-c: there's a reason I may be (with Pam) the only chatter who hasn't changed ISPs
Ron: well, if you got a good one, stay
rich-c: at $100/6 months unlimited use, we do pretty well
Ron: good deal
rich-c: and I can call up if I have a gripe and get a real human being - with authority to sort things out
Ron: that is unusual
Ron: can't say the same here
rich-c: I think the new server is a continuation of his continued expansion - even in these times
Ron: he must be doing well enough then
rich-c: my impression is that his only problem is adding equipent fast enough to keep up with growth
rich-c: he was complaining a while back that he was adding new customers faster than Bell could install new modems'
Ron: My local fellow here sold out to a Victoria firm
rich-c: damn furrin takeovers
Ron: They still maintain the local office, but I feel no sense of loyalty
Ron: Shaw's arrival in town a year ago last Nov changed things
rich-c: well, you are now enjoying the joys of cable
Ron: indeed
rich-c: I just don't feel cable is worth $600 a year to me
Ron: see that my brother just got back from his bike ride, and I'm about to be called for lunch
rich-c: looks like time to pack it in, then
Ron: yeah, I wouldn't go back now Rich, but in my more realistic moments, I wonder why I need it
Ron: not that I'm much on reality
Ron: yea see you Wed Rich
Ron: good Lord willin'
rich-c: I use mine quite a bit, but not that many bucks worth
rich-c: OK, Lordf and ISP willing, I'll be there
Ron: take care
rich-c: you too - see you
Ron left chat session
rich-c left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron
Ron: Now I'm in the chat room
Ron left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ian Primus
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to <judy
<judy changed username to Judy S
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to BobSlopsema > chat > 2001-08-11
Send comments to I am Dale Wick