> chat > Wed 2002-06-26

Chat for Wed 2002-06-26 20:57:48

rich-c: test
rich-c: refresh
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
rich-c: hello Gweorge, got your drives yet?
George: Hi Rich
rich-c: beginning to wonder if anyone was going to turn up
George: yes, only one drive is working
rich-c: they were both working well when I put them in the box - wht's the problem?
George: the first one i tried spinned and i got a blank screen
rich-c: it spun? you did have a tape in it, didn't you?
George: i tried to load three programs on it
rich-c: did you get a blue screen or a black screen?
moved to room Meeting Place
George: a cyan screen
changed username to Guy B.
Guy B.: Greetings!!!!
rich-c: hello Guy
George: Hi Guy
rich-c: have a problem - one of the tape drives I sent George isn't working
Guy B.: Got the new anti-virus software installed on the notebook.
Guy B.: Did he install it correctly?
rich-c: as long as it's a good anti-virus, Guy - one of the better freebies, isn't it?
George: second one works
rich-c: that's the question, Guy - he says when he tried to boot it gave a blank cyan screen
Guy B.: Recheck the plugs on the other drive. You could have knocked one of them loose.
rich-c: blue or black makes sense - cyan dows not
rich-c: but in that case, Guy, the second one wouldn't have worked
rich-c: cant figure it - had both working and timed perfectly when I sent them
Guy B.: Also be sure the plugs are matched to the correct drive port. Two should be in data drive A and two in drive B
rich-c: matter of fact they timed best I've seen - got them to within half a percent of perfect
rich-c: wonder if he got them misaligned on the pins?
George: right now i'm using a single drive in a
rich-c: it's easy to get a one-pin offset when you put the plug on, especially teh shorter one
rich-c: the one your using, George, that's from my shipment, right?
Guy B.: Ok, I checked my Expansion 3 Adam. There are four plugs. 1A 2A, 1B 2B. The back plug should be in 1A, the other in 1B. Same for data drive two.
rich-c: if he's got a drive in and working I reckon he has that figured out, Guy
George: i tried to install the first one three times. i was made sure of the pins matched correctly
rich-c: George, what method do you use to tell which plug goes on which pins?
Guy B.: Ok, your might be right on the second possibility. A bent pin. George are there any bent pins?
George: no
rich-c: how do you tell which way to face the plug when you plug it in?
Guy B.: Ok, that rules that out. Take the plugs for the first drive and plug them in 1A and 1B. Leave the second one unplugged.
George: could something happpened in shipping
Guy B.: The plugs can only go in one way.
rich-c: not so, Guy, it's easy to put them in back to front
Guy B.: George, try the first drive again.
rich-c: and George, yes, anytime you entrust anything to the tender mercies of the Post Office, nasties can happen
rich-c: but the are a lot of ways to go wrong, too, which is why I'm asking you the questions'
Guy B.: Did you wrap the drives in bubble wrap?
rich-c: of course
George: still the second drive works in the same place i tried the first
Guy B.: Just wanted to be sure. We all know how the post office handles these things.
rich-c: yes, but it is very easy to mis-install a drive - and you haven't answered my questions
rich-c: that cyan screen makes me VERY suspicious
Guy B.: George, disconnect the plugs from the second drive and leave the plugs in the first drive and see what happens?
George: i only have one drive installed
Guy B.: Only one data drive, not two?
George: only one at a time
rich-c: we have not determined yet, Guy, whether he knows back from front or A from B on the connectors - he hasn't answered
rich-c: let's find out if he knows the basics before we get carried away
Guy B.: Ok, George take a look inside the Adam Console. Their should be four sockets. It should be 1A 1B, 2A 2B. Is that what it says in there?
George: the slots marked a large one in first a smaller one in second a
rich-c: there are no slots - there are just four sets of pins in a well
George: i meant pins
George: it is still clearly marked little room for error
rich-c: OK, can you see inscribed in the plastic on the left the 1A-1B-2A-2B Guy was talking about?
Guy B.: The three slots are the expansion cards. There should be one on the right side. Just as I described.
George: yes i see the clear markings
rich-c: OK do you know which connector goes on which set of pins?
George: yes
rich-c: how do you tell?
George: the second drive is working in it
rich-c: that's no answer, that could be just luck
Guy B.: Ok, here's what to do next. On the data drive. There should be two cables. One on the top and one on the bottom. The bottom cable goes into 1A, the top one in 1B.
rich-c: how do you tell which connector is 1A and which is 1B?
rich-c: and ignore Guy, half the cables are side by side
Guy B.: Rich I took a look inside my Adam and that's how they are installed.
rich-c: Guy, you know teh score and I know the score - but we need to know if George knows the score and he is not answering
George: first one from the back marked a holds the larger one
Guy B.: I bet he is confused on what goes where.
George: no
Guy B.: That one goes in 1A.
rich-c: OK, you have discovered that onew connector is larger than the other?
George: thelarger one is in 1a
Guy B.: OK, put the other in 1B.
George: it is
Guy B.: Ok, now turn on your Adam.
rich-c: wait a minute - the A lines have one fewer pins than the B lines
Guy B.: Ok, hang on.
rich-c: which means that the smaller connector has to go on A
Guy B.: No, the larger one goes in 1A and the smaller one in 1B.
George: yes
George: that is the way i have it setup
rich-c: I don't have an Adam handy and can't make it to the basement - but I want a physical check on that
Guy B.: One more thing. Is the drive installed with the ground screw in?
rich-c: Guy, dont answer this. George, how do you tell the front from the back of the connector?
rich-c: does that delay mean you're just having a look now?
Guy B.: I bet he's still looking everything over.
George: there is a groove on the front side of the connector
rich-c: that's why I am using this approach, Guy
rich-c: I need to know exactly what he doesn't know about the tricks of installation
Guy B.: George, did you find what's missing?
rich-c: 'I don't believe that drive is defective, I think he's just fallen into one of the traps that get the rest of us all the time
Guy B.: Let's see if he finds what I think is missing.
George: should i ship you the computer?
rich-c: why on earth would you do that, George?
rich-c: or wre you talking to Guy?
Guy B.: Ok, George on the bottom right of the data drive there should be a groove. A screw goes into that groove attached to the board. Is the screw there?
George: i know for a fact i installed the drives the same way
rich-c: that's what we all think, George, until a drive goes wonky on us
rich-c: but you still haven't even told me how you tell front from back of a connector
rich-c: and I guarantee you it makes a big difference
George: yes i did
rich-c: then maybe I'm having a dumb night, so repeat it for me
George: in fact it won't go in the wrong way i tried
Guy B.: Aha!
rich-c: funny - I've managed to put them in the wrong way
rich-c: and how do you know it's the wrong way?
George: i don't force things in
rich-c: in short, you don't know what you're doing but wont admit it
rich-c: there is a very easy way to tell
George: only one way will go in readily
rich-c: but if you're only putting in one drive, Guy, it's easy to screw up
Guy B.: You can very easily.
George: three times?
rich-c: trust me, when it comes to screwing up, I'm an expert
rich-c: yes, George, when you don't know what you're doing
Guy B.: We all do it whether it's one or a thousand times.
George: i'm not stupid
Guy B.: No one is George. But, the best of us can screw things up from time to time. I've done it too.
George: ther is a divided notch on one side
Guy B.: Ok, you found the sockets.
rich-c: but you still haven't let me eliminate the possibility that you put in the connector back to front
rich-c: after all, even not knowing, it's an even money bet you'll get it right
George: the black wire goes on the right
rich-c: George, if you look at the connector, one side has a ridge along the bottom, the other is smooth
George: the gray to the left
George: i said that
rich-c: the ridge faces the back of the computer, the smooth side faces the front
Guy B.: by golly, he's got it right.
George: thats the way i have it
Guy B.: Make sure they are all the way in.
rich-c: if you try to install a drive not knowing that and using the information, the odds are 3 - 1 you'll get it wrong
George: they are firmly in
rich-c: George, I you talking about the working drive you have in there now, or are you changing drives as we chat?
Guy B.: OK, he's almost there. Now check the bottom right of the data drive. Is there a screw attached to it.
moved to room Meeting Place
George: three screws
changed username to Ron
rich-c: the one marked ground is the one that counts
rich-c: Hi Ron
Guy B.: Hi Ron. Welcome to Data Drive 101.
Ron: Fell asleep in the Chair From Hell
Ron: Hi all
rich-c: does that mean you're a little creaky at the moment?
Ron: Data Drive 101?
George: Hi Ron
Guy B.: Rich and I are helping George to get his data drive to work.
Ron: Hi George
rich-c: George is complaining about a drive that doesn't work, we're trying to find if he knows how to install one
Ron: yes creaky....that's a good way to describe it
Ron: hmmmm........been a while
rich-c: we have just explained how to tell front from back on the connectors
Ron: ah yes...
Guy B.: Took him awhile to figure that out.
rich-c: I tend to be fairly well up on data drives, but even when I'm careful they are easy to screw up
Ron: You mean George, in all your years as an ADAM owner, you've never had occasion to change a data drive?
rich-c: you "measure twice, cut once" and still manage to get something not quite right
Ron: Wait a minute, what is there to cut?
rich-c: that's a saying rather than practical instruction for drives, Ron
Ron: oh ok.
rich-c: like do it, check it, then check again before you commit yourself
George: brb i have to check laundry
Ron: my Dad used to say it all the time. He was a carpenter
rich-c: that's where it comes from
Ron: Same as buy high and sell low
rich-c: anyway, I just shipped George two data drives; he says one works, one doesn't
Guy B.: Got called to jury duty today and my group wasn't called. But at least I got a check just for being there.
rich-c: not that I doubt for one minute the ability of the Post Office to commit - mechanicide?
George: i'm back
Ron: or was it the other way around...... today the only option is to sell low or sell not at all
rich-c: and if you don't sell low you'll not sell at all because it will be delisted and worthless
Ron: And where were you on the evening of the 26 between noon and 2 pm?
Guy B.: George, are you ready to fire up your Adam?
rich-c: huh?
Ron: never mind
rich-c: by the way, gentlemen, if Pam does come on, it's her birthday
Ron: yesterday I bought myself another mother of all boards
Guy B.: Get the candles ready!
Ron: AMD Duron 1.2 Gig
rich-c: graduating to a 486, Ron?
Ron: must be a P4
Guy B.: Oh-oh. Now's he's faster than me.
rich-c: just a Duron? and only a 1.2?
rich-c: I certainly hope the price was awful right
Ron: sec phone rang
rich-c: for home computing a 1.2 Duron is wild overkill, actually
rich-c: but around here they're so cheap the stores don't want to sell them because there's no profit in them
Guy B.: Well, AMD has dropped the Duron in favor of the Athlon XP.
Ron: back
Ron: Hell here I was thinking I'd done a good thing
rich-c: no, AMD is keeping the Duron to compete with Intel's Celeron, in fact I think the 1.2 is a very new higher speed unit
Ron: total package was $314.
Guy B.: You did Ron.
Ron: incl case and power supply
rich-c: which mothrboard and how much memory, Ron?
Ron: I mean it's only about 4 times faster than anything else I've got around here
Guy B.: I thought Intel is dropping the Celeron, since it wasn't selling very well.
Ron: 256 Meg
rich-c: like I said, overkill, more power and speed than you can ever use
George: i just tried it in drive 2
Guy B.: I'm now thinking of adding a 256mb to my Athlon to bring it up to 384mb.
rich-c: and is that SD RAM or DDR RAM?
Ron: it says on the book.......
Guy B.: Has to be SDRAM. DDR Ram is for the Athlon.
Ron: PC266 Systemboard by (who the hell knows)
Ron: Oh well. of I was buying what I was actually going to use, I'd be back at the 286
rich-c: if it's a 266 FSB could well use DDR RAM - remember 1.2 may be e new high speed for the Duron
Guy B.: George, that data drive should be the first one.
Ron: yup
George: can you load programs from drive2 with ADAM?
rich-c: officially, no, in practice, sometimes, George
rich-c: depends on how teh boot block was written
Guy B.: You can, except the supergame tapes.
Ron: depends on which program(s)
rich-c: Ron, how many expansion slots do you have?
Ron: I see one PCI slot
rich-c: ONE?
Ron: rest of the stuff is on the motherboard.....incl ethernet
rich-c: OK, I get the picture
Ron: won't need to attach much of anything
Ron: Unless I get one of them All-In-Wonder jobbies
rich-c: built-in modem and AGP graphics, I assume, and sound
Ron: yup.... all that
Ron: I haven't put this thing together yet, except to install the CPU
rich-c: what size power supply, Ron?
Ron: sec
Ron: haven't opened the case box yet
rich-c: should be 300 with two fans
rich-c: these current chips are really heat-intensive
Ron: yeah, I know.
Ron: Will have to fill in that detail later
rich-c: some current ones have two fans on the pwoer supply, one each on CPU, graphics card and for exhaust
Ron: How's George making out
rich-c: no doubt he will tell us in due course
Ron: I'm about to turf the vast majority of my 5-1/4 inch disks
Ron: they are occupying space, and I don't use them at all any more
George: second drive just started to boot smartlogo
Ron: that's positive
rich-c: if they're dd, reformat them and hand them out as door prizes at Adamcon - dd discs are hard to come by these days
rich-c: the second drive is the one you thought wasn't working?
Ron: you have any idea how much work that's gonna entail - I don't think so
Guy B.: Ok, that concludes Data drive 101.
Ron: still, I suppose I have a year to do it
rich-c: well, you've got a few weeks yet and don't have to do them all at once
rich-c: besides, you have two floppy drives, haven't you?
Guy B.: Ron, how long you think it will take you to install the motherboard.
Ron: oh at least, but I never use them
Ron: mostly the 1.4 meg 3-1/2 on the ADAM
rich-c: and there's that program from Walters that lets you use all your disc drives at once
Ron: you reeally think somebody might want them?
rich-c: ask George - bet he'd even pay shipping to get them
George: it froze up
rich-c: or maybe Fred - he isn't here tonight, but he has a floppy drive
Ron: I suppose
rich-c: and Geoff Oltmans was asking me about floppy drives today
rich-c: you mean the program hung in loading, George?
Ron: Yeah George, that's the problem, and it may not be the drive's fault
Ron: Guy, just saw your last question re how long to install
Guy B.: Bet it because it's looking for something in the first data drive.
Ron: I have no idea. I tend to be rather slow at these things
Ron: Got some help today installing the CPU because I'd never done it before
Guy B.: Well, do it a step at a time is the best thing Ron.
rich-c: yes, Smartlogo is an original Coleco program and they tend to be finicky about whre you boot from
Ron: the rest....... just depends on how fumbly I am with small screws and spacers
rich-c: boot SmartBASIC in drive 2 and when the prompt appears, you'll see it thinks it's in drive one - the capstan on 1 spins
rich-c: put a Logo data tape in 1, George, and give it the ctalog command (list?)
Ron: some nights are better than others
Ron: think Smartbasic would be a better test, yes
Ron: seem to be hung here
Ron: ok there we go
George: task done
rich-c: OK, are we right, is the program hung because it thinks it's in drive one?
Guy B.: So the drives are working correctly?
George: i think my keyboard cable is loose
Ron: Remember that some programs may load, but will look for a HELLO file on drive one, because that's the way they're set up
Guy B.: That's easy to fix. Make sure it's plugged in securely.
rich-c: maybe the tab's broken off or something and it won't stay plugged in, Guy
George: i'll play with it tomorrow
rich-c: well, since you have both drives working, now you can go on to other problems
Guy B.: Well, folks. I got to check the e-mail. So, I'll see how Saturday goes. Otherwise, next week.
Ron: anyway guys, I think I'm gonna go and start my project
Ron: if you see blue smoke rising from the west.....
rich-c: OK Guy, I'll try for Sat but no promises - Pam is coming over
Guy B.: Wish her a Happy B-Day for me.
rich-c: Ron, consider a shot on Sat if you can
Ron: Pam's birthday?
rich-c: will do, Guy
Ron: tell her to e-mail me some cake
rich-c: today, but coming here Sat - out with the girls tonite
Guy B.: That goes same for me. Ok, See you all later.
Guy B. left chat session
Ron: re Sat....will put a note here Rich in big bold letters
rich-c: good - hope for the best
Ron: ok...take care all
Ron left chat session
rich-c: George, guess you'll want to go sort things out now
George: i need a break
rich-c: OK, if we make it, see you Saturday, otherwise next week
George: ok
rich-c: nite now
George: nite for now
rich-c left chat session
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rich-c > chat > Wed 2002-06-26
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