> chat > Sat 2003-08-16

Chat for Sat 2003-08-16 15:07:20

(rich-c gives Dr.D. a can of Diet Coke.)
Dr.D.: Hi Richard, I don't like Diet Coke.
rich-c: oh, I had the impression today anything wet might be welcome ;-)
Dr.D.: haha
rich-c: do you have water back yet?
Dr.D.: Did you folks lose power, and if so, is it restored?
rich-c: yes, we lost power just after you went down
Dr.D.: If you got my status report to the coladam list today, I *think* I said our water was back.
rich-c: not sure I checked the email tht recently
Dr.D.: It never went totally out (i.e., sucking air).
rich-c: Pam got hers back about 2 a.m.yesterday
Dr.D.: But we didn't use anything after we laid in our supply of potable water and laundry tub for toilet-flushing.
rich-c: we had to wait till 4.40 yesterdqay afternoon
Dr.D.: Our came on at 7:55 AM yesterday, though it went out again for a couple hours in the afternoon.
Dr.D.: Good discipline was observed by all, so we lost nothing in our fridge and freezer.
rich-c: we arew threatened with rolling blackouts for the next three days
Dr.D.: Probably a good idea then to keep your computer off and unplugged unless you're actually using it.
Dr.D.: No computers damaged here, but 2 in the robot lab were.
rich-c: local folks are saying after four hours fridge stuff risks being inedible
Dr.D.: In the initial outage, not in the power-ups (I had unplugged everything about 30 minutes after the outage).
rich-c: well I have a ups on the big one and the laptop has a fully charged battery
Dr.D.: Our fridge is in the basement, so maybe that's why it stayed so cool.
rich-c: oh ours stayed cool and I suspect the directions are overcautious
Dr.D.: We only had 2 bits of fresh meat in the fridge anyway, and the last of that will be cooked for supper tonight (barbecued steaks).
rich-c: I did risk some processed lunch meat but not the Montreal smoked meat
Dr.D.: Are you allowed to eat normally again?
rich-c: oh yes, yesterday I even had a peanut butter sandwich
rich-c: in theory anyway there are no limits
Dr.D.: Any difficulties?
rich-c: not so far - also had cheese sandwich and salad with a bit of oil
Dr.D.: Good...I guess the next thing is to get your strength up for the hip replacement. Any idea when that will occur?
rich-c: the interist is to clear me Sept. 11, then surgery should be sometime in November
rich-c: it will be done at the ortho and arthritic hospital downtown
Dr.D.: And rehab will take how long?
rich-c: havent any idea - several weeks though
rich-c: gather my neighbour who had it done was unusually ast in recovery
rich-c: fast
rich-c: to hear him tell he practically walked home ;-)
Dr.D.: I don't think *that* is a reasonable expected outcome :-)
Dr.D.: There's a guy in the lab I got my Ph.D. in, leaving Monday to get a hip replacement. There is a small party for him.
rich-c: well, I suspect it may be a little exaggeraed
Dr.D.: His bad leg is currently about 3 inches shorter than the good one.
rich-c: I hope to be reeasonably functional by May
rich-c: wll, y joint is in bad shape but the leg length seems even
Dr.D.: Ironically, he works in a lab that studies bone and cartilage.
rich-c: great, he can do his own diagnosis
Dr.D.: I warned him not to let the orthopedists try any of the lab director's pet theory treatments on him.
Dr.D.: He laughed.
Dr.D.: He said "No way!!!"
Dr.D.: BTW, what URL did you use to get into the chat today?
rich-c: Frances is busy reading over my shoulder
Dr.D.: I got name error when I tried the usual plain worked.
rich-c: just my bookmarked Adam chat - why?
Dr.D.: I didn't realize that though until I sent mail to the list saying I had trouble and would hang out in the alternate chat.
rich-c: I'll look at my bookmark
Dr.D.: George just logged in over there.
Dr.D.: Hi Frances.
rich-c: my bookmark has it as www.
rich-c: I'm using the laptop in the living room so I can watch the Hamilton/Montreal game
Dr.D.: Interesting.
rich-c: did you tell George we're over here?
Dr.D.: George hasn't said whether or not he got my E-mail, but he did say that he couldn't get into the main chat.
Dr.D.: Yes, I told him.
rich-c: he can be a little helpless on occasiion
Dr.D.: Well, he just vanished from coleco.
Dr.D.: Let's see if he reappears here.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel B
Daniel B: ha-ah!
rich-c: btw, Pam has gone up to the trailer; they have power there too
Dr.D.: Might be him...
Dr.D.: Nope, it's Daniel! Hi Daniel.
rich-c: salut, Daniel
Daniel B: sorry! I'm not the one you are looking for...
Daniel B: salut Rich!
rich-c: busy gloating about how Quebec Hydro got it right this time?
Daniel B: hydro-quebec? is fine!
rich-c: yes - which we can
rich-c: t say for Ontario or Ohio
Daniel B: it gives 1000 MegaWatts to NewYork + 1000 MegaWatts (and a couple of "génératrices") to Toronto.
rich-c: are you watching the CFL game, Daniel?
Daniel B: I don't like football!
Dr.D.: My Finnish penpal was gloating today about how we can bomb Iraq into the stone age but not keep power up for our own citizens.
rich-c: I notice they can't get much done to get power back up in Iraq, either
Dr.D.: I agree that for $50 billion we could have had a pretty modern power grid.
rich-c: that's a lot less than it's costing to occupy Iraq
Daniel B: I think Bush was waiting for this kind of power problem to re-activate power plants ("ceux foncitonnant au charbon")
Dr.D.: I also am convinced that if Gore had actually been awarded the presidency, 9/11 and everything after never happens.
Daniel B: These power plants are not good for the env.
rich-c: no, one of the few intelligent things Dubya has done is push nuclear
rich-c: oh, I think al-Queda would have hit regardless
Dr.D.: Not me. I think Bush et al. are just a big target.
rich-c: I spend a lot of time evry day on the bulletin board
moved to room Meeting Place
Daniel B: 1998... "crise du verglas" in province of quebec, during winter, no electricity for about one month...
rich-c: in the general discussions (auto talk forbidden) the political lines are harshly drawn
changed username to George
George: third try
rich-c: c'est vrai, Daniel
Daniel B: hi George!
rich-c: well, you made it - hello George
George: Hi All
rich-c: I'm getting a lot of hacker hits - maybe they are screwing up the Web
rich-c: in you care, Daniel, it's Montreal 18, Hamilton 10 end of the third
George: Oh no, thanks
Daniel B: About "crise du verglas" in 1998... you can saw pictures here:
rich-c: oh, we have the book about the ice storm that was published a few months after
George: test
rich-c: you're here, George
Daniel B: I don't know why they say "historical event" the current blackout. no electricity during winter during one month ... I think it's more critical.
George: so how was the blackout?
rich-c: this is historic simply because of the number of people who were affected
Daniel B: and there was a blackout in New York in 1965... if I remember well the news yesturday.
rich-c: Pam was down for 10 hours, we weere out for 25 hours
Daniel B: I think they finally realize they can do nothing without energy.
rich-c: yes, in 1965 there were 30 million knocked out
rich-c: that time though we got power back in four hours
rich-c: but that was before the politicians had managed to meddle as much
Dr.D.: We were already living in partial "primitive" mode, because our bathroom has been out of commission since Monday: a big piece of the wall in the shower just fell out.
Daniel B: I admit that there is a confusion between "the source" of the problem. That's funny seeing politician saying anything except "we don't know".
Dr.D.: It's mostly been repaired, but the grout isn't dry yet, so we were in water conservation mode anyway.
rich-c: yes, usually they don't admit it
Dr.D.: A workman is to come later today to (hopefully) finish it off.
rich-c: I wish you the best of luck - it's tough without the facilities
Dr.D.: But in the meantime, later tonight I will be taking a "shower caravan" down to CWRU to use a shower hidden away in an obscure part of the materials engineering building.
Daniel B: what is the last "theory" about the problem? a fire? why not solar wind?
Dr.D.: There is a foundry in the basement, and the men's room next to the foundry has a 2-stall shower and large locker room.
George: the politicians caused the blackout
Dr.D.: The shower is through a door in the back of the men's room proper, so there is no way to really know it's there.
rich-c: Daniel, it appears to have originated in Ohio, drawing the Lake Erie Loop into a cascade
rich-c: so you'll sort of have to stand guard, Rich?
Dr.D.: All I have to do is camp outside the inner door to prevent anyone from getting to the locker room area while the girls are using the shower.
Daniel B: Super Dr.D :D
Dr.D.: But this washroom is so little used anyway, I have never even had anyone else come in while we were there.
Dr.D.: I bring a chair and a book; women take *forever* in the shower.
Dr.D.: :-)
Daniel B: That's generous... using your time to help! :)
rich-c: I know what you mean though I'm kind of long myself
George: Bush vs. Canadian Primeminister in a Steelcage match for Summerslam main event
Daniel B: George: hehehe
Daniel B: I didn't know this
rich-c: personally I'd bet on Chretien - he's pretty tough
Dr.D.: Workman just came...
rich-c: the difference is we'll be rid of Chretien in a fwe more months
rich-c: great, Rich
Dr.D.: ...he is regrouting some stuff that cracked.
Dr.D.: I may be in and out here.
George: Let's start a U.S. recall vote on Bush
Daniel B: did you remark that Jean Chretien didn't say anything about the blackout... that's a best way to avoid saying anything bad.
rich-c: right - if you're quiet we'll know why
Dr.D.: We'll have our chance in November 2004, George...
Dr.D.: other recall mechanism exists at the popular level.
rich-c: strictly speaking, the blackout wasn't any of Chretien's business
George: they are doing it in CA
Dr.D.: Impeachment would take as long as the wait 'til the next election.
Dr.D.: The CA constitution allows a recall, George. Ohio's does, too.
rich-c: hydro is strictly a provincial responsibility
Dr.D.: Our federal government is behind the times.
Daniel B: What is the possible opponent fro Bush (in? or for?) the next election?
Dr.D.: Well, if the blackout did start here in Ohio, I hope that nobody boycotts if there were anything anyone living anywhere it might have started could really do to prevent it.
George: I think we have more grounds for recall since Gore won the popular vote
rich-c: on our BBS the liberals seem impressed with Dean
Dr.D.: I have no idea, Daniel. Our Democratic party seems to be going in circles. Not that I care too much for them.
Dr.D.: I wish that *something* could break up the 2-party monopoly here.
Dr.D.: The parties are entrenched and more similar than they are different.
George: Jesse Ventura
Dr.D.: A smart, independent-thinking guy like me has no viable candidates.
rich-c: we have a couple of Libertarians who'd agree ;-)
Dr.D.: Ventura is a joke. Ahhh-nuld is a joke.
rich-c: bad jokes at that
Dr.D.: I think we could have an Election Lottery:
George: Vincent Kennedy McMahon
Dr.D.: Draw 100 random Social Security numbers: you are Senators.
Dr.D.: Draw another random 435: you are Congressmen.
Dr.D.: Draw 2 more at random: you are President and Vice-President.
Dr.D.: Draw 9 more at random: you are Supreme Court justices.
rich-c: of course you'd have to buy tickets to be in the lottery, right?
Dr.D.: Put everyone in a dorm in Washington DC.
George: the meathead
Dr.D.: Give each person a desk, phone, E-mail, and secretary.
Dr.D.: Government could not be worse than it is now.
Daniel B: i think it's a good idea! :) i think everyone will want the money with the job.
Dr.D.: Might be much better, you would get a sensible cross-section of the people.
Dr.D.: No money, just all expenses paid to live in the Government Dorm and set things to rights.
George: Yes just print our own money
rich-c: my late kid brother used to say our Senators should be appointed that way
Dr.D.: And at the end of 4 years, do it again. Serve once, you are done for life.
Dr.D.: So there is an incentive to do it right and get out.
Dr.D.: The lottery again, that is.
Dr.D.: But the idea is too sensible for it to ever have a chance.
George: my pledge home generatos for everyone
rich-c: the Franklin Graham types would all be getting their parishoners to buy millions of ticketsd for them
Dr.D.: I think the US will be stuck with its fossilized government until either the EU or the Chinese become Top Dog in the world in the 100 years or so.
rich-c: you'd end up with a fundamentalist theocracy
Dr.D.: No buying of tickets, it's just a random number draw.
Dr.D.: From the pool of SSNs of living citizens.
Dr.D.: Equal shot for all.
George: they'd pull out a dead one
Dr.D.: Looks like we lost Daniel.
rich-c: oh, you'd have to limit it to those who were at lesst interested enough to buy a ticket
Dr.D.: No, this is *mandatory* service, you can't escape your civic duty.
rich-c: so we did - wonder where he went?
Dr.D.: It would show that every citizen is important, not like Animal Farm...
rich-c: and you'd get the dodgers, just like jury duty
Dr.D.: Who would want to dodge it? Real power, a real chance to make a difference?
George: i have to shutdown
Dr.D.: Looks like thunderstorms a-coming here, too...very dark outside now, and cloudy.
rich-c: well, now we know where our cold front went
Dr.D.: Bye George, thanks for stopping in.
George: bye for now
rich-c: bye George
George left chat session
rich-c: nice thing about whole-house surge protection and a ups, storms are less of a worry
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel B. 2
Daniel B. 2: yes, it's me again!
rich-c: welcome back, Daniel
rich-c: we just lost George to a tornado warning
Dr.D.: Do you have a lightning rod on your house?
Dr.D.: My grandparents' houses both had them.
Daniel B. 2: hehe .. no! but it's not impossible in a near future
Dr.D.: But I admit that I don't see them on houses around here.
Daniel B. 2: this morning there was a lightning very close to our house
rich-c: no, I remember lightning rods, but they went out of fashion in urban areas decades ago
Daniel B. 2: my HD needed a "defrag"
rich-c: I suspect if we got a hit it would be on the tv antenna tower
rich-c: yes, I like to defrag my HD every Friday
Dr.D.: Grampa Drushel's house had them at about 20-foot intervals all along the peak of the roof.
Dr.D.: Connected by stranded cable about 1 inch in diameter.
rich-c: yes, and in areas where the barn was the higest point in the county, I gather they work
Daniel B. 2: my norton systemworks update... the symantec client service?!... ok!
Dr.D.: Probably.
Dr.D.: I just remember having to be careful of the points when working on that roof.
rich-c: yes, you could get a nasty surprise backing into one
Daniel B. 2: I think I will need a reboot... after this update.
rich-c: yes, major updates do require a reboot
Dr.D.: They had a ball at the base, maybe 3 inches in diameter, with a spike about 6 inches long sticking up.
rich-c: I need to update my anti-virus too, and also
rich-c: Windows
rich-c: I think you can still see farm houses in Ontario like that, Rich
Daniel B. 2: I don't like to say this, principaly during this period of time, there is a possibility to receive a document I asked for... during this year?
rich-c: Pam says she hopes to get the photocopy done next week
Dr.D.: Yes...I know which document you mean.
rich-c: is there a Speedy Muffler shop handy to you, Daniel?
Dr.D.: How big a PDF file can you download, Daniel?
Daniel B. 2: if I can access an ftp service, it could be the best solution. the mailing service is less than 3 or 6 meg.
Dr.D.: I never E-mail attachments, it is against my religion. E-mail is for plaintext.
Daniel B. 2: Question: Dr.D and Pam... have the same document?
rich-c: I'm talking about the Adam Technical Manual
Dr.D.: If it's the OS-7 source code listing...
Daniel B. 2: my internet service is "unlimited" and "slow".
rich-c: and that is about 700 pages long
Dr.D.: Most of the ATM is online already, at least the ADAM parts.
Daniel B. 2: yes! :) I already read the ADAM parts :)
rich-c: Daniel wants a hard copy to share with a friend
Dr.D.: I never retyped the EOS User's Manual and ADAMnet User's Manual parts.
Dr.D.: Ah.
rich-c: if you mean Guy Cousineau's manual, ANN still has it for sale
Daniel B. 2: I read most of the TWWCA too.
Dr.D.: Dale lent me his original Coleco copy of the ATM, and it is very different from the copy I got from Shawn McCollum at ADAMcon IV.
Dr.D.: No, there is a part of my ATM that is a brief description of some EOS function calls.
rich-c: I think that was the MTAG copy which I have as well
Daniel B. 2: Personnaly I want the coleco bios source code. A friend of mine want a complet adam manual document.
Dr.D.: I brought it back from the convention. I was going to copy it and document the differences from my copy.
Daniel B. 2: A correlation between some OS7 calls and EOS calls can be done?
Dr.D.: I think his is a later copy, but mine seems to have more information.
Dr.D.: The EOS graphics and music calls do the same thing as the OS7 versions, but the register setup is different for some of the calls.
rich-c: shall I suggest maybe the later edition left out some bugs?
Dr.D.: No, Dale's is more compressed in some areas.
Dr.D.: The only part of his copy that has more info is in the description of how ADAMnet works.
rich-c: like, they vwent back and tightened up the code?
Daniel B. 2: Like I said... I need to reboot now. BRB
Dr.D.: It's actually useful for programmers. My copy is missing specifics, and there is no "here's how to use ADAMnet" info.
Dr.D.: Dale's copy has no source code in it.
Dr.D.: There is an order form at the back to request it.
Dr.D.: My copy has the EOS and OS7 source code.
rich-c: I don't think mine has any order form
rich-c: as you know, I do not get involved in the tech stuff
Dr.D.: :-)
rich-c: I just try to have the resources for those who will use them
rich-c: but I must admit I am going to have to throw in the towel soon
Dr.D.: In what way?
rich-c: I have run out of space. market and to some extent patience
rich-c: I need some of my basement and bedroom back
rich-c: like, I've got those boxes and boxes of newsletters
rich-c: I don't want to give them to opportunists
rich-c: you know, the type who show up on chat just long enough to sweet-talk what they want, then flip us the bird and vanish forever
Dr.D.: Sounds like what we need is for all the actives among us to pay for a central storage location for this stuff.
rich-c: they'll either go to someone who's part of the historic group or I'll trash them
Dr.D.: I really don't need a monthly A.N.N. disk, but I would pay a year's subscription that would go towards a rented storage room.
Dr.D.: One of the things we were asked to do this coming year was inventory what we all have accumulated.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel B. 3
Daniel B. 3: hello?
rich-c: stroge room doesnt hack it, Rich; the issue is ready access - which means in enthusiast hands
rich-c: welcome back, Daniel, reboot done?
Dr.D.: But storage is the long-term issue.
Daniel B. 3: yep! reboot done!
rich-c: for the group, but on that time scale, we're all mortal
Dr.D.: If stuff like newsletters are not kept somewhere until they can be immortalized as scans, then no enthusiast can ever profit from them.
Dr.D.: Yes.
rich-c: that is quite true, but there are so few trustworthy
Dr.D.: I think that between Bob and me, we could arrange for storage.
rich-c: of course you know that if it isnt preserved on dead tree, I dont tust it :-)
Dr.D.: I have actually considered it for my own stuff, just to reclaim some basement space.
rich-c: yes, you and Bob would fit the trustworthy category
Dr.D.: But I don't even know for sure what I have, especially since the 3 BASIC ladies got out and left me everything they had.
Daniel B. 3: rich, Dr.D. let me know how much for the time and paper + shipping fro the documents.
Dr.D.: Those boxes have never been unpacked.
Dr.D.: Okay, Daniel.
rich-c: Daniel, again, do you have a Speedy Muffler shop easily accessible?
Dr.D.: I'm pretty sure Sandy told me that both she and Pat had complete runs of Nibbles'n'Bits.
Dr.D.: Among other stuff.
Daniel B. 3: I know one... I think it's the "Ste-Foy boulvard"
Daniel B. 3: at the ...
Dr.D.: I have at least 2 years' worth of NIADs from my own subscriptions, plus whatever NAIDs my Dad kept from his subscription in 1985.
Dr.D.: I probably have 1000 5.25" disks, too, most without labels.
rich-c: Daniel, Speedy has a courier service between shops Pam is allowed to use
Dr.D.: There is a project there just to use DISKCOPY on them to make emulator images and burn them on a CD, to figure out what's actually on them later.
rich-c: that was the reeson for my question
rich-c: yes, I have at lest 1000 floppies, likely far more, almost all labelled
rich-c: unfortunately about half are just game roms
rich-c: if I ever find out how to get Adam formatted discs read into my DOSbox, I can burn all sorts of CD ROMs
rich-c: in fact I might use it as an excuse to buy a DVD burner; they're under $200 here now
Daniel B. 3: a LG DVD burner is now 150$
rich-c: Daniel, if you could find out where the Speedy shop is, maybe get the store number, it would help
Daniel B. 3: I will check it out...
Dr.D.: What I would do with my collection is (1) collect all the disk into a massive pile, (2) give each a 4-digit serial number, (3) make a disk image of each, (4) burn all the images onto a CD, and (5) then figure out what's on them, so they can be sorted into rational groups.
rich-c: best I've seen advertised in Toronto is $190
Dr.D.: All the machines at the lab have CD burners, and my desktop research machine has a DVD burner. Somehow I don't think that we have more than a CD's worth of disk images, though.
rich-c: if you do, Daniel, tell Pam -
Daniel B. 3: Dr.D. : This remember me my commodore floppies I have and they lost data each year (magnetic support lost data after a while).
rich-c: I wont say I have every Adam program ever published, but I'm awful close :-)
rich-c: btw, Rich, hear you kept Pam up till almost 1 a.m. last chat
Dr.D.: We kept each other up. We had lots of catching up to do.
Dr.D.: Time just sorta went by...nobody complained :-)
rich-c: still, shame on both of you - you need your shuteye
rich-c: dont know which of you is the worse offender on such things
Dr.D.: I'm still a bit on PDT, so I wasn't tired.
Dr.D.: Well, next time we will be more sensible.
rich-c: right, coming east that could work for you
rich-c: just for kicks, Rich, sometime when you have time, do go look at
Dr.D.: Okay.
Daniel B. 3: Someone here need the phone... I suppose it's time for me to say "goodbye".
rich-c: I think that you would find the general discussin threads fascinating
Daniel B. 3: keep me inform about the pdf...
Dr.D.: Me too, girls are asking when I am going to start the barbecue.
Dr.D.: (Joan is working today).
rich-c: OK Daniel - au revoir to you, and see you WWednesday
Daniel B. 3: and the "photocopies"
Dr.D.: If you want to see my ADAMcon 15 photos, you can look at the pages in progress at
rich-c: yes, and I need a shower before dinner
Dr.D.: where * is one of {thur fri sat sun mon}
rich-c: OK Rich will try to sneak a peek
Dr.D.: I only have captions written for Thursday and Friday, and there is no navigation stuff for Sat-Mon.
rich-c: I'm sure they'll be there in the fullness of time
Dr.D.: I'll keep plugging away at them, they should be done in a week.
rich-c: good show
Daniel B. 3: ... good bye :)
Dr.D.: Bye, Daniel.
rich-c: au revior, Daniel - a la prochaine
Dr.D.: There are probably 500 photos altogether.
rich-c: that will keep you busy
rich-c: if you talk with Bob about the docs and stuff, keep it between us, OK?
Dr.D.: Certainly, Richard.
rich-c: I would rather not put certain noses out of joint
Dr.D.: Whose nose, if I can ask...
rich-c: some of our semi-regulars who maybe arent totally enthusiastic, or responsible, or such
Dr.D.: I see.
rich-c: like, I wouldn't care to pass them on to George ;_)
Dr.D.: I don't think he'd want them!
rich-c: quite, but you get the idea
rich-c: anyway, time for both of us to go
Dr.D.: I don't think I've ever sold anything or junked anything...
Dr.D.: Right, talk to you Wednesday.
rich-c: exactly, and Bob the same
rich-c: look forward to it - bye now
Dr.D.: <poof>
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rich-c: poof
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changed username to rich-c > chat > Sat 2003-08-16
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