> chat > Sat 2003-12-27

Chat for Sat 2003-12-27 14:59:40

rich-c: confirm
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron
rich-c: happy new year, Ron
Ron: and likewise good sir
rich-c: missed you Xmas Eve
rich-c: but got a fair few, including Murray briefly
Ron: yes, well you know how these famkly gatherings are. just plum forgot
rich-c: one does get involved in teh other goings on, for sure
Ron: Had a message from Murray wishing festive greets and all
rich-c: so how's things in Edmonchuk?
Ron: I hear from him about twice a year - outside ADAMCons
Ron: So how was Christmas
Ron: cold this morning, but it's been mild up to today
Ron: about 8 or 9 inches of snow....not much really
rich-c: yes, he's sort of isolated out there - not that you'd know about isolation, of course ;-)
Ron: yup
Ron: back in a sec.... gotta check up on Mom
rich-c: we're in teh banana belt - Comox weather - hoarfrost thick on the grass this morning
rich-c: just don't let her get too deep in teh sherry trifle ;=)
Ron: been more wine if anything at all
Ron: no, she's ok, but she gets easliy confused in a strange house
rich-c: not surprised, seems people are more and more into wine and out of the harder stuff
Ron: Not that this house is strange but it's different
Ron: yep
Ron: I stick to water. Haven't yet mastered required techniques for turning it into wine.... not that I would want to
rich-c: yes, you get your reflexes all tuned to one layout, then when it changes it can throw you
Ron: exactly
Ron: getting old is not for sissies
Ron: Don't think I'm going to get old
rich-c: as you know Frances and I aree very fond of our wine every weekend but pretty strictly limit it to that
Ron: understood
Ron: you feeling better from the hip down now?
rich-c: well, let's say there are challenges to it, but you can stay up to them for quite a while
Ron: happy to know that Rich
rich-c: oh yes, it will still be a month before I can start easing the restrictions'but meanwhile it's feeling fine - we wre out for a hike yesterday
Ron: aha
Ron: good stuff
rich-c: upsetting - all our birds seem to be vanishing from teh city
Ron: not a good sign
rich-c: went up to teh park where teh flood control dam and pond are - not a duck or goose anywhere
Ron: we still have a fair variety around our place in Comox, but compared to you, it's positively rural at home
Ron: Nothing here in Edmonton but sparrows and magpies
rich-c: at teh feeder at the park building, no chickadees - not even a sparrow at the stables, with horses out
rich-c: yes, the magpies are colorful; of course we never see them
Ron: Rich, I think we're in the process of making a plan to go out here, I may have to leave ya
rich-c: have had our feeder back in operation for a week, and not a single customer
Ron: just what I need.... back to the stores
Ron: But mother needs a wheelchair in the mall, and someone to push it
Ron: re the birds...... would they normally be there summer and winter?
rich-c: oh - I took a look at teh Best Buy but with a lineup around the corner of teh store, three abreast too, I didn't even go into the parking lot
Ron: Edmnonton wasn't that bad before Christmas, and yesterday we stayed home....but today, who knows
rich-c: previous winters we've had a chickadee shuttle across the front of teh house almost 24/7
Ron: back in a sec
rich-c: and cardinals, the odd bluejay, flocks of house finches, ditto sparrows, juncos feeding on the spillage on teh ground
Ron: Ok Rich...unfortunately I must away.... so we'll see you when? Thurs Eve?
Ron: will be back home then
rich-c: yes, Thursday it is, 9 p.m. - see you then
rich-c: meanwhile take care and enjoy the holiday
Ron: ok.... festive greets to you both. Say hi to Frances for me
Ron: yes, you too
rich-c: will do - bye now
Ron: bye
Ron left chat session
rich-c: refresh
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel Bienvenu
rich-c: happy new year, Daniel
Daniel Bienvenu: TADA!
Daniel Bienvenu: happy new year, Rich!
rich-c: got out of the shopping chore, did you?
Daniel Bienvenu: well, it's too soon
Daniel Bienvenu: I went to the electronic shop
rich-c: you are so right - stores here are almost riot scenes today
Daniel Bienvenu: I came back as fast as I can
Daniel Bienvenu: I have now a "black light" (or blake light?)
rich-c: I checked out Best Buy yesterday morning - linue three abreqast more than half the width of teh frontage, just to get in
Daniel Bienvenu: I need a UV light to erase eprom
rich-c: black light, I assume - ultraviolet?
rich-c: yes, that is ultraviolet
rich-c: I guess you went to a small store then that wasn't crowded
Daniel Bienvenu: the black light is used to see also "fluo" colors and detect "false" dollars.
Daniel Bienvenu: In fact, it was the biggest electronic shop here
Daniel Bienvenu: I buy for some TTL 74LS08 too
rich-c: that's right. Many materials flouresce under ultraviolet light
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm currently test the black light with programmed eproms
rich-c: I forget - the 7408, that's a fairly standard logic switch, isn't it?
Daniel Bienvenu: to see (how much time) the UV light will erase the eprom... if the generated UV light is enough to erase the eprom.
Daniel Bienvenu: 7408 it's a logic switch, yes
Daniel Bienvenu: i think it's AND
rich-c: I know the eproms are built to be erased by UV light, but don't know the intensity
Daniel Bienvenu: if the black light works, I will now have to pay 150$ for an eraser
Daniel Bienvenu: I will NOT
Daniel Bienvenu: not NOW
Daniel Bienvenu: oops! hehehe!
rich-c: I was once told even overexposure to sunlight could erase them, but I don't know if that is true
Daniel Bienvenu: it's true
Daniel Bienvenu: but only a few bits can affect the rom
rich-c: that would suggest then that the one you bought should work
Daniel Bienvenu: so to sun exposure... the rom become "corrupted"
rich-c: yes, that is also true, one critical bit changed and everything is lost
Daniel Bienvenu: I turn off the lights... it's cool to see white papers glow because of the UV light :)
rich-c: are you planning to build a logic circuit, then?
rich-c: yes, I think it's the minerals in the coating that actually glow
Daniel Bienvenu: it's to do more coleco cartridges... I needed 7408 and eproms... I have them, now, I need to erase the eprom I have with a UV source... and I have one now
Daniel Bienvenu: I do a few "solder" (28 for the eprom and 14 for the TTL)
Daniel Bienvenu: and VOILA!
Daniel Bienvenu: a new coleco game
rich-c: I wonder if the chips off old Coleco or Adam motherboards are salvagable?
rich-c: I think the tips wre cut off the "legs" once they wre soldered in
Daniel Bienvenu: I think they are not UV "erasable"
Daniel Bienvenu: ho! this tricks?
rich-c: no, I was thinking more of teh logic switches like the 74LS08
Daniel Bienvenu: someone said he do that to build up a DACMAN himself
Daniel Bienvenu: by cutting and soldering new eprom in a old 24k circuit
rich-c: two problems, Daniel - one is getting the chips off the board
rich-c: the other is verifying that the chips still work
Daniel Bienvenu: diificult to tell you but i think they didn't discontinued the 74LS08.
rich-c: over the yers teh boards have been sensitive to corrosion - that is what killed most Adams
Daniel Bienvenu: you may be able to pickup the 74ls08 chip but i prefer to pay for new ones... less problem
rich-c: if you're dealing with Adam processor speeds, you need a slower logic chip, don't you?
Daniel Bienvenu: err.. you want to replace chips from old coleco and adam boards?
rich-c: no, I have a bunch of useless old boards from the expansion module Adam
Daniel Bienvenu: the only thing i know is the 74ls08 is ok to do new coleco games
Daniel Bienvenu: the 7408 (no ls) should be work too but it's more expensive
rich-c: just in case, Daniel, when buying them I suggest you ask about the speed
rich-c: it could be you lucked into a good one now but otehrs might not suit
Daniel Bienvenu: I admit that I never ask for the speed but I suspected a speed difference between the two models
rich-c: anyway, I plan to throw out the cases, save the fasteners (good computer screws and stuff are always useful)
Daniel Bienvenu: I suppose internet have the information of the speed
rich-c: then I will decide what to do with the boardds - likely junk them
Daniel Bienvenu: well, you can sell them.
rich-c: yes, and I suspect Dr. D. can tell you what speeds work
rich-c: my recollection - NOT to be trusted - is that 150 ns is the fastest usable
rich-c: can't see anyone buyinf boards with 20 year old chips of unknown reliability
Daniel Bienvenu: you may be surprised
rich-c: wouldn't have a clue as to where to offer them even
rich-c: but frankly if they went for a penny a piece I'd be astonished
rich-c: the only thing going for them is that I believe they have Adam's one custom, non-substitutable chip on them
rich-c: if, of course, it still happens to be working
Daniel Bienvenu: I found technical info for the 74ls08
Daniel Bienvenu:
Daniel Bienvenu: delay seems to be less than 100ns
rich-c: that may be the current model - the Adam version may be different
rich-c: they have found out a few things about speeding up chips in the last decade or two!
Daniel Bienvenu: That's more than a probability
rich-c: Am I right and thinking the 7408 was produced by Asian makers mostly?
rich-c: I know a lot of the Adam chips came out of Japan, Taiwan and Malaysia
Daniel Bienvenu: I think you are right
Daniel Bienvenu: Hey! I found a better technical source here
Daniel Bienvenu:
Daniel Bienvenu: for most of the standard TTL
rich-c: if so you'd likely have to go to their websites to find the old specifications
rich-c: Netherlands based, is it? Wonder if it has any association with Phillips?
rich-c: anyway, if it's a pdf might be worth your while to download and print it out
rich-c: that is if you are going to be foooling around much with old chips
Daniel Bienvenu: in page 808 (bottom)
Daniel Bienvenu: there is a table with delays
Daniel Bienvenu: all values are under 50ns
rich-c: er - ah - page 808? (gulp!) - maybe that could be a bit much of a download
Daniel Bienvenu: 7408 slower than 74LS08, 74LS08 two times slower than 74S08
rich-c: anyway, don't know if speed will be an issue for what you plan
rich-c: but if everything should work but doesn't, it may be a question worth checking
Daniel Bienvenu: I think the speed is not a problem because the slowest speed is in the colecovision... not in the cartridge. :)
Daniel Bienvenu: more faster react the cartridge, more the data readed will be the good ones
rich-c: can't really tell, but the issue would be the logic sending data faster than the processor can cope, I think
rich-c: but you're into a technical area where I have no expertise whatsoever
Daniel Bienvenu: the cartrdige doesn't "pitch" data... they simply give data when the coleco specify a new address
rich-c: you would know far more than I on that, Daniel
rich-c: after all, anything is better than nothing!
Daniel Bienvenu: if the coleco is the turtle and the cartridge the rabbit, it the turtle ask for a carot and the rabbit give immidiatly the carrot to the turtle... whatever the turtle take is time to take the carrot, the turtle will have the carrot eventualy. :) No?
rich-c: I don't know the technicalities, Daniel, but that may be the case
rich-c: unless the rabbit gets bored with waiting and runs away first
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm testing now the perom "erased" with the UV light
Daniel Bienvenu: not perom... eprom
rich-c: how will you tell if it is fully or partially erased? and does it matter?
Daniel Bienvenu: needed to be fully erased. the eprom burner software can read the data from the eprom too
rich-c: would that matter if teh software allows teh original to be overwritten?
rich-c: or is it programmed on the assumption that everything wil be in its original state?
Daniel Bienvenu: all the BITS in the erased eprom are set to 1
Daniel Bienvenu: the burner can only set to 0 (not to 1) the bits in this particular eprom
rich-c: does the burner then only change the bits that need to be reset to zero?
Daniel Bienvenu: if it's not totally erased, the result is an "overdump" and also a very corrupted ROM.
rich-c: OK, think you just answered my question
Daniel Bienvenu: it looks like the experiment is.... failed
rich-c: you weren't able to reset everything to 1?
Daniel Bienvenu: only one eprom chip is erased... probably one eprom chip i already erased in the past
rich-c: are you trying to erase more than one eprom at a time, then?
Daniel Bienvenu: maybe it's not the good UV frequency
rich-c: possible, though I don't know how critical that may be
Daniel Bienvenu: the black light i have is a TUBE
rich-c: and I assume a real eraser should be a bulb shining directly into the little window on the chip?
Daniel Bienvenu: I continue the experiment... to see if there is any change in the ROM after a couple of minutes
rich-c: possibly if you could rig up something to focus the light more intensely ont to chip?
rich-c: I assume I don't need to warn you about the dangerss of ultraviolet light to your eyes
Daniel Bienvenu: I have nothing to do that right now
rich-c: rig up an aluminum foil cone or something, maybe?
Daniel Bienvenu: there is a reflector (like the one in a flash light) on the "lamp"
Daniel Bienvenu: when it's chat session will ends, I will test again the eprom chip
Daniel Bienvenu: if I see a little change, I will calculated approximatly the time to erase the whole eprom... probably one entire night
rich-c: right - I think you will be doing a certain amount of testing before you get it right
rich-c: come to think of it, I think I vaguely recall Sid Carter saying even a regular eraser took a while to clear a chip
Daniel Bienvenu: otherwise, I need to buy an eprom eraser... but I will need to sell alot of cartridges before
Daniel Bienvenu: a regular eraser take between 10-30 minutes
rich-c: what's the chip number of the eprom you are using?
Daniel Bienvenu: 27C256
rich-c: maybe Dr. D. can give you some advice on eprom erasing - Dale might know something too
Daniel Bienvenu: probably, but right now I can only HOPE that my judgment about buying a black light was not "futile"
rich-c: well, either it works or it doesn't, but you can only try
Daniel Bienvenu: "High Intensity UV Lamp Design Operating intensity is at least 25% greater than competitive systems for increased throughput. Excellent uniformity insures fast and complete erasure."
Daniel Bienvenu: there is also a formulas about time to erase an eprom
Daniel Bienvenu:
rich-c: well that sure sounds like it is intended to clear eproms!
Daniel Bienvenu: time (seconds) =
Daniel Bienvenu: nominal erasing energy (W-sec/cm2) x 1,000,000
Daniel Bienvenu: divided per
Daniel Bienvenu: UV Irradiance (uW/cm2)
rich-c: which, in teh computer world, means you have a nice theory that might work for you :-)
Daniel Bienvenu: more there is the UV irradiance power, more faster is the "erasing" process
moved to room Meeting Place
Daniel Bienvenu: who is there?
changed username to Dale
Dale: Hi all.
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Dale!
rich-c: hey. Dale, welcome, happpy new year, and all!
Daniel Bienvenu: Long time no see
Dale: I was about to do some server maintenance, when I noticed some one was on the chat.
rich-c: Daniel is just fussing over erasing an eprom
Dale: Happy New Year to you too.
rich-c: yes, Ron was on earlier but had to leave
Dale: I've been very busy.
Dale: My business has been taken over by my biggest customer.
Daniel Bienvenu: yeah, I have a "black light" but the result is not effective to erase eproms
rich-c: how's Jill and the young'un getting on?
Dale: So now I work for Best Buy/Future Shop.
Dale: I made some coin in the transaction though.
rich-c: you mean you've been bought out?
Daniel Bienvenu: If I refer to the formulas, my UV source is not "too irradiance"
Dale: Jeffrey is growing like a weed, to be sure.
Dale: Can you believe that he's almost 2 -- January 4th.
rich-c: they do that in teh early years - but I'm sure you and Jill can easily cope
Dale: Jill is doing great. She's just finishing some time off from work.
rich-c: that's incredible, Dale - time passes so quickly
Daniel Bienvenu: yes, time passes so quickly
rich-c: so how long to you plan to stay with Future Shop?
Dale: I didn't get a break except this weekend/stat holidays, because I have to keep the web servers stoked.
Dale: Shovel the coal and all that.
Dale: I'll be with FS for a few years at least.
rich-c: just what you need when everyone else has a break
rich-c: is that contract (sales agreement), Dale, or your plan?
Dale: Well they are paying me over 3 years to keep me at least that long.
Dale: Then I'll do something different, I think.
rich-c: I guess that tells us something - what about your partners?
Dale: Both of them are in a similar deal, so we're basically keeping the team together.
Dale: But 2 of my long time employees didn't want to switch teams, so I'm without them until I can hire someone.
rich-c: I got teh felling on teh Future Shop purchase that Best Buy work on the basis of if it ain't bust, don't fix it
rich-c: maybe you should make an offer to Daniel - he's job hunting how
Dale: Definately seems that way. And it give them some "locals" to add Best Buy stores to the mix.
Dale: I noticed that.
Dale: How do you feel about wireless programming (WAP sites, Java applets, etc.)
Dale: Hmmm...not paying attention I guess.
rich-c: I suspoect a big problem would be moving to Toronto
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm here... it's just i don'T know what to say
Dale: It's been done before. But I'd anticipate a bit of culture shock to be sure.
rich-c: Daniel does multi-task sometimes when he's on
rich-c: so Daniel, how are you at Java?
Dale: You did post that you were looking for something.
Daniel Bienvenu: when there is a "discussion" between two persons, I don't want to interfer and look at something else. :)
rich-c: hey, Daniel, these discussions are for everyone all the time
Daniel Bienvenu: Java? I still need reference books. but I programmed a few things during my master
Dale: It's hard to say if I have the right sort of thing.
rich-c: remember everything is archived, so the whole WWW knows about it
Daniel Bienvenu: there are a lot of librairies I never used
Dale: Well, Java for cell phones is embedded Java, so lots of the libraries aren't available.
rich-c: btw Dale, I Googled my name recently, and got over 3900 hits - the Adam archive is really brimming!
Dale: I'm always supprised at how much content the actually is at
Dale: And yet I'm missing so much ANN stuff.
Daniel Bienvenu: humm... My name is "googled" only 427 times
rich-c: if you need any of the early discs, Dale, I can loan them to you
Dale: I just bought a new desktop PC, and I'm on the lookout for a good 360k 5 1/4" floppy drive for it.
Dale: Currently I have a 3.5" one, but I don't need that one, I need a 360K 5.25" one.
rich-c: at a wild guess, try "Dr. Computer" up in the Steeles West Flesza Market/Mall
rich-c: they are open Tuesday through Sunday, I believe
Dale: Ever since my Adam 3.5" drive broke, I've been wanting one.
Dale: I'll check there. That's a block from my office.
Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, do you mean that it's java programming for the cellphone? programming games or other software?
Dale: Well, my company doesn't do
Dale: Java games currently.
Dale: What we do is image manipulation type stuff.
Dale: Your favorite photo on a cell phone, web enabling camera phones, and the like.
rich-c: I assume you've been following Daniel's adventures with dithering down colours
Dale: I have.
Daniel Bienvenu: Java + image manipulation.... sopunds like my master subject
Dale: What was your Thesis topic?
rich-c: how do you think you'd enjoy life in Toronto, Daniel?
Daniel Bienvenu: I can't answer until I try... living in Toronto.
Daniel Bienvenu: my thesis topic is :
Dale: Rich, the problem I've had is that there are so many 1.2 MB 5.25" floppy drives around, they tend to drowned out the 360k ones.
rich-c: right, Dale, but it seems many of the early 1,2 mb 5-1/4s had the dual format capability
Daniel Bienvenu: Traitement d'image et interface graphique en Java.
Daniel Bienvenu: can be translated as: image processing and Java GUI
rich-c: as they wre phasing in so many had so much invested in 360s that they needed to read them to sell
Dale: The fundamental problem with the 1.2 MB drives is that they are designed to be backwards compatable for reading, ...
Dale: but for writing, it is always a roll of the dice.
rich-c: not that an old PC or XT with one is that easy to find any more...
Daniel Bienvenu: I have to go now... it's my turn to prepare dinner ... I prefer "SOUPER" :)
rich-c: I've always been lucky with them, but have heard complaints from others
Dale: I usually only want to write Adam floppies on my PC. Almost never do I want to read them.
rich-c: OK Daniel, with lucj see you next Thursday - happy new year!
Daniel Bienvenu: Happy new year... I wish everything good in the world for everyone, including you. :)
Dale: Daniel, see yoyu later.
rich-c: thanks Daniel, all the best
Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, you can write me an e-mail sometimes. :)
Daniel Bienvenu: bye!
Dale: And that's were the 1.2 MB drives fail.
Daniel Bienvenu: *poof*
Dale: Sure Daniel.
Daniel Bienvenu left chat session
Dale: Anyway, I'd better go.
rich-c: well as I say, I've always been lucky
rich-c: ok - just a quick aside - Speedy is being sold so Pamela will be job hunting
Dale: I may take the server down to install a second CPU and some new RAM.
rich-c: you amy ask her about it next time you're on
Dale: Will do.
rich-c: OK, an even better working program will be welcome
Dale: You mean Chat server?
rich-c: meanwhile our best to you, Jill, Jeffy, and your family for teh new year
Dale: And the same for you and yours, to be sure.
rich-c: yes- this isn't bad but if it's faster or whatever, so much the better
rich-c: anyway take care and hope to see you online soon
Dale: later.
Dale: poof
rich-c: bye
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changed username to rich-c > chat > Sat 2003-12-27
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