rich-c: confirm
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Ron rich-c: happy new year, Ron Ron: and likewise good sir rich-c: missed you Xmas Eve rich-c: but got a fair few, including Murray briefly Ron: yes, well you know how these famkly gatherings are. just plum forgot rich-c: one does get involved in teh other goings on, for sure Ron: Had a message from Murray wishing festive greets and all rich-c: so how's things in Edmonchuk? Ron: I hear from him about twice a year - outside ADAMCons Ron: So how was Christmas Ron: cold this morning, but it's been mild up to today Ron: about 8 or 9 inches of snow....not much really rich-c: yes, he's sort of isolated out there - not that you'd know about isolation, of course ;-) Ron: yup Ron: back in a sec.... gotta check up on Mom rich-c: we're in teh banana belt - Comox weather - hoarfrost thick on the grass this morning rich-c: just don't let her get too deep in teh sherry trifle ;=) Ron: been more wine if anything at all Ron: no, she's ok, but she gets easliy confused in a strange house rich-c: not surprised, seems people are more and more into wine and out of the harder stuff Ron: Not that this house is strange but it's different Ron: yep Ron: I stick to water. Haven't yet mastered required techniques for turning it into wine.... not that I would want to rich-c: yes, you get your reflexes all tuned to one layout, then when it changes it can throw you Ron: exactly Ron: getting old is not for sissies Ron: Don't think I'm going to get old rich-c: as you know Frances and I aree very fond of our wine every weekend but pretty strictly limit it to that Ron: understood Ron: you feeling better from the hip down now? rich-c: well, let's say there are challenges to it, but you can stay up to them for quite a while Ron: happy to know that Rich rich-c: oh yes, it will still be a month before I can start easing the restrictions'but meanwhile it's feeling fine - we wre out for a hike yesterday Ron: aha Ron: good stuff rich-c: upsetting - all our birds seem to be vanishing from teh city Ron: not a good sign rich-c: went up to teh park where teh flood control dam and pond are - not a duck or goose anywhere Ron: we still have a fair variety around our place in Comox, but compared to you, it's positively rural at home Ron: Nothing here in Edmonton but sparrows and magpies rich-c: at teh feeder at the park building, no chickadees - not even a sparrow at the stables, with horses out rich-c: yes, the magpies are colorful; of course we never see them Ron: Rich, I think we're in the process of making a plan to go out here, I may have to leave ya rich-c: have had our feeder back in operation for a week, and not a single customer Ron: just what I need.... back to the stores Ron: But mother needs a wheelchair in the mall, and someone to push it Ron: re the birds...... would they normally be there summer and winter? rich-c: oh - I took a look at teh Best Buy but with a lineup around the corner of teh store, three abreast too, I didn't even go into the parking lot Ron: Edmnonton wasn't that bad before Christmas, and yesterday we stayed home....but today, who knows rich-c: previous winters we've had a chickadee shuttle across the front of teh house almost 24/7 Ron: back in a sec rich-c: and cardinals, the odd bluejay, flocks of house finches, ditto sparrows, juncos feeding on the spillage on teh ground Ron: Ok Rich...unfortunately I must away.... so we'll see you when? Thurs Eve? Ron: will be back home then rich-c: yes, Thursday it is, 9 p.m. - see you then rich-c: meanwhile take care and enjoy the holiday Ron: ok.... festive greets to you both. Say hi to Frances for me Ron: yes, you too rich-c: will do - bye now Ron: bye
Ron left chat session rich-c: refresh
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel Bienvenu rich-c: happy new year, Daniel Daniel Bienvenu: TADA! Daniel Bienvenu: happy new year, Rich! rich-c: got out of the shopping chore, did you? Daniel Bienvenu: well, it's too soon Daniel Bienvenu: I went to the electronic shop rich-c: you are so right - stores here are almost riot scenes today Daniel Bienvenu: I came back as fast as I can Daniel Bienvenu: I have now a "black light" (or blake light?) rich-c: I checked out Best Buy yesterday morning - linue three abreqast more than half the width of teh frontage, just to get in Daniel Bienvenu: I need a UV light to erase eprom rich-c: black light, I assume - ultraviolet? rich-c: yes, that is ultraviolet rich-c: I guess you went to a small store then that wasn't crowded Daniel Bienvenu: the black light is used to see also "fluo" colors and detect "false" dollars. Daniel Bienvenu: In fact, it was the biggest electronic shop here Daniel Bienvenu: I buy for some TTL 74LS08 too rich-c: that's right. Many materials flouresce under ultraviolet light Daniel Bienvenu: I'm currently test the black light with programmed eproms rich-c: I forget - the 7408, that's a fairly standard logic switch, isn't it? Daniel Bienvenu: to see (how much time) the UV light will erase the eprom... if the generated UV light is enough to erase the eprom. Daniel Bienvenu: 7408 it's a logic switch, yes Daniel Bienvenu: i think it's AND rich-c: I know the eproms are built to be erased by UV light, but don't know the intensity Daniel Bienvenu: if the black light works, I will now have to pay 150$ for an eraser Daniel Bienvenu: I will NOT Daniel Bienvenu: not NOW Daniel Bienvenu: oops! hehehe! rich-c: I was once told even overexposure to sunlight could erase them, but I don't know if that is true Daniel Bienvenu: it's true Daniel Bienvenu: but only a few bits can affect the rom rich-c: that would suggest then that the one you bought should work Daniel Bienvenu: so to sun exposure... the rom become "corrupted" rich-c: yes, that is also true, one critical bit changed and everything is lost Daniel Bienvenu: I turn off the lights... it's cool to see white papers glow because of the UV light :) rich-c: are you planning to build a logic circuit, then? rich-c: yes, I think it's the minerals in the coating that actually glow Daniel Bienvenu: it's to do more coleco cartridges... I needed 7408 and eproms... I have them, now, I need to erase the eprom I have with a UV source... and I have one now Daniel Bienvenu: I do a few "solder" (28 for the eprom and 14 for the TTL) Daniel Bienvenu: and VOILA! Daniel Bienvenu: a new coleco game rich-c: I wonder if the chips off old Coleco or Adam motherboards are salvagable? rich-c: I think the tips wre cut off the "legs" once they wre soldered in Daniel Bienvenu: I think they are not UV "erasable" Daniel Bienvenu: ho! this tricks? rich-c: no, I was thinking more of teh logic switches like the 74LS08 Daniel Bienvenu: someone said he do that to build up a DACMAN himself Daniel Bienvenu: by cutting and soldering new eprom in a old 24k circuit rich-c: two problems, Daniel - one is getting the chips off the board rich-c: the other is verifying that the chips still work Daniel Bienvenu: diificult to tell you but i think they didn't discontinued the 74LS08. rich-c: over the yers teh boards have been sensitive to corrosion - that is what killed most Adams Daniel Bienvenu: you may be able to pickup the 74ls08 chip but i prefer to pay for new ones... less problem rich-c: if you're dealing with Adam processor speeds, you need a slower logic chip, don't you? Daniel Bienvenu: err.. you want to replace chips from old coleco and adam boards? rich-c: no, I have a bunch of useless old boards from the expansion module Adam Daniel Bienvenu: the only thing i know is the 74ls08 is ok to do new coleco games Daniel Bienvenu: the 7408 (no ls) should be work too but it's more expensive rich-c: just in case, Daniel, when buying them I suggest you ask about the speed rich-c: it could be you lucked into a good one now but otehrs might not suit Daniel Bienvenu: I admit that I never ask for the speed but I suspected a speed difference between the two models rich-c: anyway, I plan to throw out the cases, save the fasteners (good computer screws and stuff are always useful) Daniel Bienvenu: I suppose internet have the information of the speed rich-c: then I will decide what to do with the boardds - likely junk them Daniel Bienvenu: well, you can sell them. rich-c: yes, and I suspect Dr. D. can tell you what speeds work rich-c: my recollection - NOT to be trusted - is that 150 ns is the fastest usable rich-c: can't see anyone buyinf boards with 20 year old chips of unknown reliability Daniel Bienvenu: you may be surprised rich-c: wouldn't have a clue as to where to offer them even rich-c: but frankly if they went for a penny a piece I'd be astonished rich-c: the only thing going for them is that I believe they have Adam's one custom, non-substitutable chip on them rich-c: if, of course, it still happens to be working Daniel Bienvenu: I found technical info for the 74ls08 Daniel Bienvenu: http://www.cs.smith.edu/~jfrankli/270s02/datasheets/sn74ls08rev5.pdf Daniel Bienvenu: delay seems to be less than 100ns rich-c: that may be the current model - the Adam version may be different rich-c: they have found out a few things about speeding up chips in the last decade or two! Daniel Bienvenu: That's more than a probability rich-c: Am I right and thinking the 7408 was produced by Asian makers mostly? rich-c: I know a lot of the Adam chips came out of Japan, Taiwan and Malaysia Daniel Bienvenu: I think you are right Daniel Bienvenu: Hey! I found a better technical source here Daniel Bienvenu: http://www.telec.nl/cat/TTL%20800-821.pdf Daniel Bienvenu: for most of the standard TTL rich-c: if so you'd likely have to go to their websites to find the old specifications rich-c: Netherlands based, is it? Wonder if it has any association with Phillips? rich-c: anyway, if it's a pdf might be worth your while to download and print it out rich-c: that is if you are going to be foooling around much with old chips Daniel Bienvenu: in page 808 (bottom) Daniel Bienvenu: there is a table with delays Daniel Bienvenu: all values are under 50ns rich-c: er - ah - page 808? (gulp!) - maybe that could be a bit much of a download Daniel Bienvenu: 7408 slower than 74LS08, 74LS08 two times slower than 74S08 rich-c: anyway, don't know if speed will be an issue for what you plan rich-c: but if everything should work but doesn't, it may be a question worth checking Daniel Bienvenu: I think the speed is not a problem because the slowest speed is in the colecovision... not in the cartridge. :) Daniel Bienvenu: more faster react the cartridge, more the data readed will be the good ones rich-c: can't really tell, but the issue would be the logic sending data faster than the processor can cope, I think rich-c: but you're into a technical area where I have no expertise whatsoever Daniel Bienvenu: the cartrdige doesn't "pitch" data... they simply give data when the coleco specify a new address rich-c: you would know far more than I on that, Daniel rich-c: after all, anything is better than nothing! Daniel Bienvenu: if the coleco is the turtle and the cartridge the rabbit, it the turtle ask for a carot and the rabbit give immidiatly the carrot to the turtle... whatever the turtle take is time to take the carrot, the turtle will have the carrot eventualy. :) No? rich-c: I don't know the technicalities, Daniel, but that may be the case rich-c: unless the rabbit gets bored with waiting and runs away first Daniel Bienvenu: I'm testing now the perom "erased" with the UV light Daniel Bienvenu: not perom... eprom rich-c: how will you tell if it is fully or partially erased? and does it matter? Daniel Bienvenu: needed to be fully erased. the eprom burner software can read the data from the eprom too rich-c: would that matter if teh software allows teh original to be overwritten? rich-c: or is it programmed on the assumption that everything wil be in its original state? Daniel Bienvenu: all the BITS in the erased eprom are set to 1 Daniel Bienvenu: the burner can only set to 0 (not to 1) the bits in this particular eprom rich-c: does the burner then only change the bits that need to be reset to zero? Daniel Bienvenu: if it's not totally erased, the result is an "overdump" and also a very corrupted ROM. rich-c: OK, think you just answered my question Daniel Bienvenu: it looks like the experiment is.... failed rich-c: you weren't able to reset everything to 1? Daniel Bienvenu: only one eprom chip is erased... probably one eprom chip i already erased in the past rich-c: are you trying to erase more than one eprom at a time, then? Daniel Bienvenu: maybe it's not the good UV frequency rich-c: possible, though I don't know how critical that may be Daniel Bienvenu: the black light i have is a TUBE rich-c: and I assume a real eraser should be a bulb shining directly into the little window on the chip? Daniel Bienvenu: I continue the experiment... to see if there is any change in the ROM after a couple of minutes rich-c: possibly if you could rig up something to focus the light more intensely ont to chip? rich-c: I assume I don't need to warn you about the dangerss of ultraviolet light to your eyes Daniel Bienvenu: I have nothing to do that right now rich-c: rig up an aluminum foil cone or something, maybe? Daniel Bienvenu: there is a reflector (like the one in a flash light) on the "lamp" Daniel Bienvenu: when it's chat session will ends, I will test again the eprom chip Daniel Bienvenu: if I see a little change, I will calculated approximatly the time to erase the whole eprom... probably one entire night rich-c: right - I think you will be doing a certain amount of testing before you get it right rich-c: come to think of it, I think I vaguely recall Sid Carter saying even a regular eraser took a while to clear a chip Daniel Bienvenu: otherwise, I need to buy an eprom eraser... but I will need to sell alot of cartridges before Daniel Bienvenu: a regular eraser take between 10-30 minutes rich-c: what's the chip number of the eprom you are using? Daniel Bienvenu: 27C256 rich-c: maybe Dr. D. can give you some advice on eprom erasing - Dale might know something too Daniel Bienvenu: probably, but right now I can only HOPE that my judgment about buying a black light was not "futile" rich-c: well, either it works or it doesn't, but you can only try Daniel Bienvenu: "High Intensity UV Lamp Design Operating intensity is at least 25% greater than competitive systems for increased throughput. Excellent uniformity insures fast and complete erasure." Daniel Bienvenu: there is also a formulas about time to erase an eprom Daniel Bienvenu: http://www.jelight.com/eprom-erasers.htm rich-c: well that sure sounds like it is intended to clear eproms! Daniel Bienvenu: time (seconds) = Daniel Bienvenu: nominal erasing energy (W-sec/cm2) x 1,000,000 Daniel Bienvenu: divided per Daniel Bienvenu: UV Irradiance (uW/cm2) rich-c: which, in teh computer world, means you have a nice theory that might work for you :-) Daniel Bienvenu: more there is the UV irradiance power, more faster is the "erasing" process
moved to room Meeting Place Daniel Bienvenu: who is there?
changed username to Dale Dale: Hi all. Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Dale! rich-c: hey. Dale, welcome, happpy new year, and all! Daniel Bienvenu: Long time no see Dale: I was about to do some server maintenance, when I noticed some one was on the chat. rich-c: Daniel is just fussing over erasing an eprom Dale: Happy New Year to you too. rich-c: yes, Ron was on earlier but had to leave Dale: I've been very busy. Dale: My business has been taken over by my biggest customer. Daniel Bienvenu: yeah, I have a "black light" but the result is not effective to erase eproms rich-c: how's Jill and the young'un getting on? Dale: So now I work for Best Buy/Future Shop. Dale: I made some coin in the transaction though. rich-c: you mean you've been bought out? Daniel Bienvenu: If I refer to the formulas, my UV source is not "too irradiance" Dale: Jeffrey is growing like a weed, to be sure. Dale: Can you believe that he's almost 2 -- January 4th. rich-c: they do that in teh early years - but I'm sure you and Jill can easily cope Dale: Jill is doing great. She's just finishing some time off from work. rich-c: that's incredible, Dale - time passes so quickly Daniel Bienvenu: yes, time passes so quickly rich-c: so how long to you plan to stay with Future Shop? Dale: I didn't get a break except this weekend/stat holidays, because I have to keep the web servers stoked. Dale: Shovel the coal and all that. Dale: I'll be with FS for a few years at least. rich-c: just what you need when everyone else has a break rich-c: is that contract (sales agreement), Dale, or your plan? Dale: Well they are paying me over 3 years to keep me at least that long. Dale: Then I'll do something different, I think. rich-c: I guess that tells us something - what about your partners? Dale: Both of them are in a similar deal, so we're basically keeping the team together. Dale: But 2 of my long time employees didn't want to switch teams, so I'm without them until I can hire someone. rich-c: I got teh felling on teh Future Shop purchase that Best Buy work on the basis of if it ain't bust, don't fix it rich-c: maybe you should make an offer to Daniel - he's job hunting how Dale: Definately seems that way. And it give them some "locals" to add Best Buy stores to the mix. Dale: I noticed that. Dale: How do you feel about wireless programming (WAP sites, Java applets, etc.) Dale: Hmmm...not paying attention I guess. rich-c: I suspoect a big problem would be moving to Toronto Daniel Bienvenu: I'm here... it's just i don'T know what to say Dale: It's been done before. But I'd anticipate a bit of culture shock to be sure. rich-c: Daniel does multi-task sometimes when he's on rich-c: so Daniel, how are you at Java? Dale: You did post that you were looking for something. Daniel Bienvenu: when there is a "discussion" between two persons, I don't want to interfer and look at something else. :) rich-c: hey, Daniel, these discussions are for everyone all the time Daniel Bienvenu: Java? I still need reference books. but I programmed a few things during my master Dale: It's hard to say if I have the right sort of thing. rich-c: remember everything is archived, so the whole WWW knows about it Daniel Bienvenu: there are a lot of librairies I never used Dale: Well, Java for cell phones is embedded Java, so lots of the libraries aren't available. rich-c: btw Dale, I Googled my name recently, and got over 3900 hits - the Adam archive is really brimming! Dale: I'm always supprised at how much content the actually is at AdamCon.org Dale: And yet I'm missing so much ANN stuff. Daniel Bienvenu: humm... My name is "googled" only 427 times rich-c: if you need any of the early discs, Dale, I can loan them to you Dale: I just bought a new desktop PC, and I'm on the lookout for a good 360k 5 1/4" floppy drive for it. Dale: Currently I have a 3.5" one, but I don't need that one, I need a 360K 5.25" one. rich-c: at a wild guess, try "Dr. Computer" up in the Steeles West Flesza Market/Mall rich-c: they are open Tuesday through Sunday, I believe Dale: Ever since my Adam 3.5" drive broke, I've been wanting one. Dale: I'll check there. That's a block from my office. Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, do you mean that it's java programming for the cellphone? programming games or other software? Dale: Well, my company doesn't do Dale: Java games currently. Dale: What we do is image manipulation type stuff. Dale: Your favorite photo on a cell phone, web enabling camera phones, and the like. rich-c: I assume you've been following Daniel's adventures with dithering down colours Dale: I have. Daniel Bienvenu: Java + image manipulation.... sopunds like my master subject Dale: What was your Thesis topic? rich-c: how do you think you'd enjoy life in Toronto, Daniel? Daniel Bienvenu: I can't answer until I try... living in Toronto. Daniel Bienvenu: my thesis topic is : Dale: Rich, the problem I've had is that there are so many 1.2 MB 5.25" floppy drives around, they tend to drowned out the 360k ones. rich-c: right, Dale, but it seems many of the early 1,2 mb 5-1/4s had the dual format capability Daniel Bienvenu: Traitement d'image et interface graphique en Java. Daniel Bienvenu: can be translated as: image processing and Java GUI rich-c: as they wre phasing in so many had so much invested in 360s that they needed to read them to sell Dale: The fundamental problem with the 1.2 MB drives is that they are designed to be backwards compatable for reading, ... Dale: but for writing, it is always a roll of the dice. rich-c: not that an old PC or XT with one is that easy to find any more... Daniel Bienvenu: I have to go now... it's my turn to prepare dinner ... I prefer "SOUPER" :) rich-c: I've always been lucky with them, but have heard complaints from others Dale: I usually only want to write Adam floppies on my PC. Almost never do I want to read them. rich-c: OK Daniel, with lucj see you next Thursday - happy new year! Daniel Bienvenu: Happy new year... I wish everything good in the world for everyone, including you. :) Dale: Daniel, see yoyu later. rich-c: thanks Daniel, all the best Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, you can write me an e-mail sometimes. :) Daniel Bienvenu: bye! Dale: And that's were the 1.2 MB drives fail. Daniel Bienvenu: *poof* Dale: Sure Daniel.
Daniel Bienvenu left chat session Dale: Anyway, I'd better go. rich-c: well as I say, I've always been lucky rich-c: ok - just a quick aside - Speedy is being sold so Pamela will be job hunting Dale: I may take the server down to install a second CPU and some new RAM. rich-c: you amy ask her about it next time you're on Dale: Will do. rich-c: OK, an even better working program will be welcome Dale: You mean Chat server? rich-c: meanwhile our best to you, Jill, Jeffy, and your family for teh new year Dale: And the same for you and yours, to be sure. rich-c: yes- this isn't bad but if it's faster or whatever, so much the better rich-c: anyway take care and hope to see you online soon Dale: later. Dale: poof rich-c: bye
Dale left chat session
rich-c left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Murph
Murph left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to George
George left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dr.D.2004
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to <undefined>
<undefined> changed username to Dr.D.2004
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rich-c