AdamCon.org > chat > Thu 2009-01-22

Chat for Thu 2009-01-22 02:59:36

Guy B.: Greetings Rich
Guy B.: HI Meeka
Meeka: hello
rich-c: hello all
Guy B.: Be back while I place an order
rich-c: see wqe even have a couple of early arrivals tonight
rich-c: so how are you adn Doug doing, Meeka?
Meeka: not bad
rich-c: good - gather it's cold and snowy down your way too
Meeka: ya, last week was fridged
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel Bienvenu
Guy B.: Hi Daniel
Meeka: hello
Daniel Bienvenu: bonsoir Guy, Meeka, Rich
rich-c: we're still running about -10C
Guy B.: We are getting a thaw through Friday, then the cold returns. But not like last week
rich-c: salut, Daniel
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to BobS
BobS: HOLY COW....THEWHOLEGANGA
Guy B.: Hi Bob. How bad is the snow over there?
Meeka: hi dad
Daniel Bienvenu: Bonsoir Bob
BobS: and the space key is kinda stuck too
BobS: hallo ALL
rich-c: yes, we asaw -20C and lower
rich-c: hi bob
BobS: ouch
BobS: COOOLLLDDDD
BobS: we areback into the low 20's.....about -5C (?)
rich-c: yes, that's about 4 bwelow zero F
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Judy
Guy B.: Hi Judy
Daniel Bienvenu: F=5*(C-32)/9
rich-c: yes, bob, -5C is about 22F
Judy: Hi, everyone
rich-c: hi judy
Judy: Meeka, you remembered
Daniel Bienvenu: err.... I reverse the C and F, sorry
Meeka: looks like it :-P
Judy: good for you
rich-c: higher mathematis challenge me, anyway
BobS: still have to get the paperwork signed,but that is not aproblem
Judy: have to have an idea what kind of room everyone wants
rich-c: now what are you folks up to? house buying?
Judy: two doubles or king
rich-c: damcon - right
Meeka: ok dad
BobS: got to know what you allwant for bedsin order to get the hotel for ADAMCON
rich-c: as usual, Frances and I need separate beds - also lots of plugs for my CPAP machine, computers, and stuff
BobS: figure you andFrances want 2 beds.... and Pam & Russ a king who smokes
Meeka: we want a king
rich-c: yes, I need non-smoking for my lung weakness now
BobS: think the only smoker is Pam
rich-c: you are probably right
Judy: ..
rich-c: wonder how soon we can get a handle on who will be able to make it
Judy: ..
rich-c: Daniel, have you any idea about whetehr you can make this Adamcon?
Daniel Bienvenu: I have a valid passport, but the transport cost is a problem.
Meeka: mom, why are all your lines just dots?
Judy: ..
Daniel Bienvenu: what's the deal with all the ".." ?
rich-c: no way to guess what the airfares will be, either, especially by June when the airlines might be getting hungry
Judy: because that way I get the chat without typing any lines myself
Daniel Bienvenu: ??
Meeka: ahhh
Judy: could do ?marks
rich-c: does teh chat drop you if you don't post for a bit? Guy doesn't have that problem
BobS: DANIEL......... morse code.....dot dot dash dot ...............rememberamonth or so ago?????
Guy B.: No problem with me being dropped, unless it's the system
Judy: no, doesn't drop me just doesn't post new lines
Judy: or entries
rich-c: like, you just don't get anyone's postings?
Daniel Bienvenu: dot dot dash dot?
Daniel Bienvenu: are you sure?
Judy: that is exactly right Rich
rich-c: that is really strange and seems unique to your computer; no one else gets it
Daniel Bienvenu: I remember dot dot dash dash dot dot which is the Question Mark
Daniel Bienvenu: ..--..
rich-c: but then Windows tends to do strange things at times
Judy: but only to my computer
rich-c: Bob, any major airlines fly into Grand Rapids from Canada?
Daniel Bienvenu: So, if you don't type anything, the chat is not working properly for you?
rich-c: oh, if Windows takes a snit, it will mess up any computer
BobS: don't know
Daniel Bienvenu: If it's only with this chat, it's maybe a problem with the java run time plugin.
Daniel Bienvenu: Did you check your list of installed software?
rich-c: Daniel, where is it easy to fly to from Quebec? Detroit? Chicago? Toronto/ Hamilton? Buffalo?
Judy: ..
Daniel Bienvenu: I don't know. I did take the plane one time and it was for the Adamcon
rich-c: I seem to recall last time you had to tranfer twice to get to Hamilton
Judy left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: Judy is gone?
rich-c: yes, looks like she's fallen off - I expect she will be back soon
Meeka: brb, Bandit is in need of a potty break
rich-c: I suspect theree are a number of airlines fly from Toront ot Grand Rapids
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to JudyS
rich-c: welcome back, Judy
JudyS: back again
rich-c: did you jump or were you pushed?
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Pamela
Daniel Bienvenu: If Java gives you a headache with the chat session, you can try to uninstall every Java from the control panel and then go back to internet after a restart and try to install a fresh version of Java runtime , it's actually version 6 update 11.
BobS: hey Pamj
rich-c: hi daughter
JudyS: ..
Pamela: hi there
Guy B.: HI Pam
BobS: MEEKA you back?
JudyS: hi, Pam
rich-c: had your dinner now?
Pamela: sorry, lost track of time
Pamela: eating now
rich-c: shame, shame
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Pam. There is a discussion start about the Adamcon. And for now, I'm the only one who seems to have a problem to be there.
JudyS: I got off to see if I could come in another way but there isn't any others loaded on this computer
Pamela: why Daniel?
Daniel Bienvenu: transport
Daniel Bienvenu: the killing transport cost in my budget
rich-c: direct flights from Quebec to Grand Rapids are rare and expensive
rich-c: even Quebec to Toronto is pricier than it ought to be
Pamela: there's such a thing as a direct flight???
JudyS: are you staying warm, Pam?
Pamela: not too bad Judy
rich-c: have no idea, likely there isn't
JudyS: that's good
Pamela: sorry, quiet till i finish food
JudyS: ..
rich-c: I'd guess any ground transport would take too long, unless he could hitch a lift with GuyF
BobS: got $350 from toronto to grand rapds
JudyS: didn't he ride with Neil before?
rich-c: any idea if the Drushels will make it, Pam?
Pamela: no idea Papa
rich-c: I assume that's return - who's the airline, Bob?
BobS: couple of them
BobS: looking for Quebec to gradn rapdis now
rich-c: name a few names
Meeka: b
Daniel Bienvenu: There is still a small chance for me to be at the adamcon this year. There is no need to rush now to find a solution. Time will tell if I'm lucky or not.
JudyS: Meeka never came back?
Meeka: just did
BobS: $657 on United for Quebec to Grand Rapids
rich-c: is that a return price? is it direct?
JudyS: I see
Meeka: was trying to catch up on what i missed a sec
BobS: Northwest
JudyS: ..
Daniel Bienvenu: I
Meeka: ok, since Pam has now graced us with her presence I will officially anounce we have a hotel for AC
rich-c: which one did you choose, Meeka?
Meeka: it is the same one we were in last time we held it
Daniel Bienvenu: .. = i, so she is saying : I
BobS: 2 connections on the way to GR and 1 on the way back to Quebec
Pamela: Yay!
Pamela: so in theory I should be able to find it : )
Meeka: lol, i would hope so
rich-c: feeder plus mainline? feeder to feeder? where are teh conncetions?
JudyS: ..
rich-c: is that teh one where you just sort of turn off teh highway and there it is?
BobS: Comfort Inn Suites on the dubious street called 28th street
BobS: yup
Pamela: with the Target across the street, right?
JudyS: not anymore
rich-c: Pamela knows what's important ;-)
Meeka: it is straight shot about 5 min off the highway right on 28th street
Daniel Bienvenu: Target? A kind of mart?
Meeka: target moved down the street Pam
JudyS: Target moved down the street
Pamela: comme Walmart, Daniel
rich-c: a Wal-Mart competitor, Daniel
Pamela: lessee, what did I not answer?
JudyS: more of a super store now
Guy B.: Meijer is near there too if I'm right
Meeka: yup
rich-c: you mean they added groceries?
Meeka: yes, they have limited grocerys Rich
Pamela: Oh, warm - Judy, I seem to be warm enough except when I first get to work and first get home
Meeka: mostly the dry goods
Pamela: but that is what blankets are for
Pamela: I don't know whether the Drushels will attend or not but as I understand it, it's in the current plan
Guy B.: I have a Super Target right across from me that carries groceries as well as everything else Target sells
rich-c: or longjohns, or cardigans, or...
JudyS: I agree, Pam
Pamela: I should be wearing my pashmina to work so I can wrap it around me - sometimes that's all the extra warmth I need
rich-c: my cursor crony in Phoenix was saying the stores there are coupon-mad - you see much of that?
JudyS: I put on my under shirt this afternoon to get warm, after swimming this morning I have a hard time staying warm
JudyS: what is a pashmina?
rich-c: very expensive, very fasionable fabric, judy
Pamela: well the originals were made from cashmere and silk I believe - wide wraps, like long wide scarves
Pamela: the ones I have are viscose, I believe but same idea
JudyS: ..
JudyS: I see
rich-c: actually it's a very fine wool made from an exotic type of goat
rich-c: but I think it has got corrupted - sort of like blue or grey pants being sold as khakis
Pamela: same idea
Pamela: but they're perfect when you need a light extra layer
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Dale
Dale: Hi all.
Pamela: Hi Dale
rich-c: the real ones are said to be surprisingly warm
Meeka: hi dale
rich-c: hi Dale
JudyS: Hi, Dale
BobS: hi Dale
Pamela: yes, and I would be happy to have one but wool of any type makes me itch, and it's hard to wash them
Guy B.: HI Dale
rich-c: dale, had a guy asking me today about MI disc drives
Dale: Do you have any still?
JudyS: ..
rich-c: the drive interface with teh Adam is the Adamnet - is that covered in the Technicaql Manual?
BobS: MI disk drives........the only one of a kind type of drives around..........depending on the parts available
Dale: The AdamNET is described in detail in one of the 3 versions of the Adam Technical Manual.
rich-c: does anyone know how Mark made those drives, in terms of disassembling the eprom code?
Dale: So it depends on which version you get.
Pamela: I'll make sure I bring one or two with me Judy - they're great for over-air conditioned rooms too
Dale: Rich Drushel has the source code of the EPROM
rich-c: in short, is the information in existence to close an MI disc board?
Dale: Is there a date for AdamCon yet?
Dale: i'm starting to plan my summer vacation time.
BobS: June 25-29, 2009
Meeka: june 25-29
Daniel Bienvenu: Bonsoir Dale
Dale: Great.
Pamela: over my birthday this time
Meeka: cool
Meeka: dougs will be the week before this year
Pamela: and Daniels too
Dale: Do you mean clone?
Daniel Bienvenu: June 25-29 ? it's also after my birthday
rich-c: sorry, Dale - yes, clone. This keyboard can't spell
Pamela: yes, yours is the 19th right?
Daniel Bienvenu: 18
Guy B.: Good dates Bob. That's a slow month at work for me
Pamela: sorry
Daniel Bienvenu: don't be sory
Daniel Bienvenu: anyway
BobS: GREAT, all agreed that the dates are good!!!!!! Room configurations anyone ?????????
Pamela: is Doug's the 19th Meeka?
BobS: 20th
Meeka: 20
Daniel Bienvenu: Did the mailing list adamcon is working?
Daniel Bienvenu: Joe Benkley said that it wasn't working
JudyS: ..
Guy B.: I can bunk with someone.
Pamela: King size bed first choice, or two doubles
rich-c: I have seen virtually nothing from it for weeks
BobS: go ti Pam
Dale: Why so early?
Meeka: i havent gotten them in a LONG time
Dale: Now I have to decide if Jeffrey missed the last day of school or doesn't come. :-(
rich-c: late June worked very well last year - only time everyone could agree on
BobS: school ???? thata late????
rich-c: that's no tough call - what would you do if he had a cold?
BobS: good point Richard
JudyS: ..
rich-c: bet half the kids will be absent that day anyway - parents get impatient to get to the cottage
Dale: Then I have another conference I'm supposed to be at in Seatle on Sunday June 28.
BobS: Twill be at the site of ADAMCON 14 in the NEWLY REMODELED Comfort Inn near the freeway and all the restaurants and stores
JudyS: ,,
Pamela: shopping!
Pamela: (sorry)
rich-c: I need a beeer
BobS: and we thought from the crowd we had picked a PERFECT date
Pamela: great, we're driving Dad to drink : )
Dale: If he had a cold, I would go in with him to get say goodbye to his friends.
BobS: :-)
BobS: good dad
Guy B.: I really like that area there
Pamela: Dale, will Jeffrey be happy if he comes?
Pamela: or happier if he stays home with his friends?
Dale: He is always unhappy about missing anything.
JudyS: no, he just drinks anyway
Dale: So I don't know.
rich-c: right, this is the time dedicated to my weekly beer
Dale: From the schedule for the other conference, it looks like I'll need to be in Seatle on Sunday morning at 9am. :-(
Dale: Well, I guess that that's just the way it goes, right?
rich-c: and bet on the connection from Grand Rapids to need an 8-hour layover
Pamela: as long as you're able to attend at least part of the convention Dale, you'll be able to maintain your flawless record
JudyS: ..
rich-c: at least you'll have the time zones working for you
Pamela: well we some time before we have to get the logistics worked out
JudyS: that is a bummer, Dale
Pamela: can one fly from GR to Seattle?
rich-c: the pricing should be interesting too - oil price is way down and airline tickets are starting to follow
rich-c: my bet is that there would be a stopover - Chicago, Denver, or Salt Lake City depending on airline
JudyS: ..
BobS: GR to Minniapolis to Seattle maybe
Pamela: oy
BobS: or th Chicago and on west
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to harvie
Pamela: Hi Harvie
rich-c: yes, I'd forgotten - there's a pretty big hub at Minneapolis, isn't there?
Meeka: hello
harvie: Hello
Guy B.: Hi Harvie
rich-c: hello Harvie - and I guess happy new year is still in order
JudyS: ..
BobS: HARVIE
BobS: longa time no see mon
JudyS: hi, Harvie
Daniel Bienvenu: At GrandRapid, is there any chance for Jeffrey to meet kids, some friends, to play with during the Adamcon? Being the almost only kid in a convention is somehow odd.
Meeka: we have a few nephews around his age
rich-c: Jeffrey is used to it, Daniel - he goes to every one
harvie: I'm like a bad cold... I keep coming back.
Daniel Bienvenu: I know Rich, you can't always tell a kid to not be a kid.
Dale: Yup, it looks like there are only one stop flights from Grand Rapids for sure.
Meeka: ya, a kids dream, 15-20 adults to spoil him and him alone
Pamela: unlike the cold though Harvie, you're always welcome
rich-c: lots of that going around, Harvie ;-)
Dale: Hi Harvie.
Pamela: well he's certainly adaptable - seems to enjoy the company of adults
rich-c: Michael was threatening to come on too, but hasn't turned up
Dale: The quickest flights seem to place me in Seatle at 10:30 on Sunday.
Pamela: Lord, I gotta call him
Dale: That means that I'll probably have to leave Saturday night.
Pamela: well that sucks
Dale: I guess it depends on the schedule for that workshop that I'm planning on attending.
rich-c: how are the flight frequencies, Dlae?
JudyS: ..
rich-c: yes, if the presentation doesn't start to after lunch, you're in like a dirty shirt
Pamela: Hey Dale, have you perfected Jillian's DWIMer yet? : )
BobS: AA leave GR @ 5pm and arrive SEA @ 9pm 1 stop
harvie: I was just preparing to close up the shop for the night and remembered the chat.
Pamela: ya gotta put up a post it or something, Harvie
Pamela: set your watch alarm
rich-c: hey, you should do that more often, harvie
Dale: Well, there are lots of flights from GR to SEA.
Dale: Leave at 7:30pm arrive in Seatle at 11:02pm
rich-c: yes, but can you take a nice cheap red-eye and still benefit from the workshop?
harvie: I seldom read clocks or calenders
Meeka: well folks, I am gonna go.
Pamela: he wants to be awake for the workshop, Dad : )
Dale: See you later Meeka.
Pamela: gnite Meeka
rich-c: meeka, glad to have you here, hope to see you next week
Meeka: see ya enxt week as long as I remember on time :-P
rich-c: that was the point of my remark, Pam
Pamela: see advice to Harvie above : )
Meeka: usually I realize I missed it on thursday night
Meeka left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: bye meeka... too late
Pamela: we'll send you a screaming e-mail : )
Dale: No red-eyes into Seatle. Just ones returning from Seatle.
JudyS: ..
Pamela: Russell's reaction to the hotel - woohoo!
harvie: Goodnight Meeka, and Goodnight to everyone else. I just dropped in to say hello (and goodbye)
rich-c: considering the time change and transit and booking time to teh hotel, I'd call the 11.02 pm arrival a redeye
rich-c: night, harvie - good of you to come
JudyS: Goodnight, Harvie
Daniel Bienvenu: goodnight harvie
harvie left chat session
Pamela: nice to see you Harvie
Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, you didn't say a word about your incredible voice acting you did for me.
rich-c: Dale, you saw Joe Blenkle's note about the mailing list. Anything there wortgh pursuing?
Pamela: voice acting?
moved to room Meeting Place
left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: Who was that?
Pamela: ghost : )
rich-c: looks like an in and out by Dale
Pamela: did that work Dale?
Dale: What incredible voice active?
Dale: acting*?
Daniel Bienvenu: spirit, gives us a sign, try again to enter the chat
Pamela: LOL
rich-c: rotfl
Dale: I just added a narration to your video.
rich-c: aha - teh plot thickens
Daniel Bienvenu: just added? you did an incredible job. people do like your style.
JudyS: ..
Daniel Bienvenu: he was dealing with a bug and bugz and he did find time to take a microphone and improvize over a video I did. No script, spootaneous, simply brilliant
JudyS: ..
Pamela: high praise indeed
rich-c: nice going - din't realize stand-up improv was one of your skills, Dale
Daniel Bienvenu: next time, we can try a longer video I guess.
rich-c: Dale, just want to summarize here re cloning the MI floppy drives
rich-c: I'm thinking in terms of a competent engineer trying it
Dale: Well I still have contact with Scott Gordon
JudyS: ..
rich-c: would the Adam interface information, plus readout of the EPROM, give the necessary information?
Dale: and I think he has the schematics and so on for the MI board.
rich-c: is my perception correct that the floppy drives used were any generics?
Dale: I just wasn't confident that it would be worth making another 50 of them.
rich-c: yes, that's always been the obstacle. What's the copyright status? Any blockage there?
Dale: They are more or less generic floppy disk drives. For the 5.25" ones you need a drive that can have a disk-in sensor added.
Pamela: well guys, although I was late, I think I'm going to bail early and spend some time talking to my hubby
Pamela: so I'll see everyone next week
Dale: I expect I could get permission from Scott to make actual clone boards.
BobS: ok Pam.........startplanningyour summer now
rich-c: OK daughter, you get your shuteye, let us know if anything develops
Dale: But would it be worth it to go to that expense?
Daniel Bienvenu: is it me or it looks like you Dale are actually working on the adamcon mailing so now I'm receiving a few late mails?
Pamela: already booked my vacation Bob
Dale: What you're talking about Richard is making a new floppy controller from scratch though, aren't you?
Pamela: goodnight everyone
Dale: I am working on the Adam mailing list.
Pamela: Dad, I'll call soon
Daniel Bienvenu: bonsoir Pam
Dale: I just need to know that it has stalled to fix it.
rich-c: well, I was talking to a guy in Dallas who caqlled because he has vague ambitions
Guy B.: Bye Pam
Dale: I guess running the chat server and my IRC bot makes the mailing list run out of memory when I get spam attacks.
JudyS: ..
rich-c: he just wants to buy a drive but would make his own and possibly produce more
Pamela: kerpoof!
Pamela left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: Nibbles & Bits? it sounds like a computer magazine... it was like the magazine Byte?
rich-c: he priced a few on eBay and got very impressed by what they were selling for
JudyS: night Pam
Dale: Maybe I should give up on my IRC bot, so that the mailing list goes back to it's only more reliable self.
BobS: Nibbles & Bits was a newsletter from DigitalExpress for ADAM users
Dale: I would certainly recommend starting with a working drive before making your own, myself.
BobS: kinda died out about 199?
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to mikem
JudyS: ..
rich-c: hello mike - I was just talking about you
BobS: Hi MIke
rich-c: Dale, this is Mike Malloy from Texas, wants to know about Adam drives
Dale: Hi there.
rich-c: Mike, Dale is pretty much our guru on the subject
mikem: Hello
mikem: I was looking for the serial protocol for the adam disk drive
Dale: I've owned a few different floppy drives for the Adam.
rich-c: mike, just ask what you need to know
Dale: But never an original Coleco single sided drive I guess.
mikem: Anything would help
Dale: Well before making a new drive, all of the previous drive designers have looked carefully at previous designs.
rich-c: mike, you got my reply today?
Dale: So I would say that to be practical you really should have a drive made by someone else before making your own.
Dale: The EEPROM in the drives are actually all quite similar.
JudyS: I will be saying goodnight, see you next week
Dale: You could get the source code to the EEPROM from Rich Drushel.
rich-c: night, judy
Dale: He has a copy of the source.
JudyS left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: 199?... way after coleco bankruptcy then. I didn't know that the Adam users got so much magazines and during a long period of time.
Dale: One of the reasons that Micro Innovations stopped making drives is that the 6801 controller chip that was used previously became rare, and unavailable from their previos suppliers.
Dale: But on ebay, rare is relative.
Daniel Bienvenu: I saw my games as "RARE" on eBay, I don't feel like they are rare.
mikem: Can anyone take some close up pictures of the MI drive?
Dale: I think Nibbles and Bits was published pretty much monthly for like 10 years. A very long time.
Daniel Bienvenu: "EXTREMELY RARE" sometimes
BobS: yes Daniel........most of the ADAM support came after Coleco went bankrupt
BobS: and some newsletters went almost to 2000
Dale: In ebay terms, your games was never made in the 10,000 quantities of regular commercial games, so rare is pretty fair.
rich-c: we just got stubborn, daniel, and wouldn't give up our Adams
rich-c: so we had to learn how to make them go ourselves
Daniel Bienvenu: After Coleco started to decline, they said that continue to do and sell software for the Coleco Adam but someone else is dealing with the hardware... and I don't knwo which company did do that, it was Telegames?
mikem: My plan was to take a Super I/o chip that I have several thousand of and use them for the new disk drive
mikem: They have a floppy ports, 2serial ports, parallel port and RTC
Dale: So you wouldn't be using the 6801 controller chip that was in the old drives?
Dale: Or you would emulate it with something with a much faster clock speed?
mikem: Probably an Atmel AVR
Dale: The 6801 talks over the bidirectional AdamNET data line.
BobS: yes Daniel.....Telegames purchased to rights to sell a lot of the Coleco games, but lost stock in a fire I understand and have pretty much abandoned any ideas of producing more or complaining about copies
Dale: It is a master-slave relationship, with token passing.
mikem: once I know the serial protocol and format, the rest is easy
Dale: In the US, telegames has ended support for old 8-bit game systems.
Dale: But the telegames UK was still doing some stuff last I checked.
Daniel Bienvenu: Telegames did good things for Coleco users.... I kinda realize it now... like publishing games like alcazar because the original company decided to stop any Coleco developement because the market was going badly for Coleco Industries.
Dale: It is on my todo list to talk over the AVR or TI MSP430 to the Adam.
Dale: But I am slow. I'm sure you would get to it long before me.
rich-c: Mike, be aware MI made the Multiple Interface Board (MIB3) with two seriel and one parallel plrt, working out of the centre slot of the
rich-c: adam
Dale: If you are willing, I would reuse your interface code to make other things that I'm interested in making.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to james
mikem: So i assume that the MI drives have the same 6801 as the origional Adam drives?
Dale: I was thinking that doing it from an FPGA would work better.
Daniel Bienvenu: hi James
rich-c: good morning james - how are things in Japan?
Daniel Bienvenu: is it cold?
Dale: Yes, and the protocol code is reverse engineered and updated for two sided and large capacity drives.
Dale: Hi James.
james: hello
mikem: Can I get a copy of the code?
Dale: I don't have it, but Rich Drushel does.
rich-c: we're raiting to hear you ae up to your ears in snow, james
james: we got a lot of snow
james: well in excess of 150 cm
james: thankfully it's been melting off for the past week
Dale: drushel at apk.net
BobS: YES!!!!!!! now we don't feel so bad here in the upper midwest...se got too much snow also
rich-c: our total so far is 117 cm, but it's colder nor a polar bear;s butt
james: lol
rich-c: last year our whole seasonal snowfall was 115 cm - and we set a record for precip last year
Guy B.: Well folks. Going to call it the night. Will see you all next week
rich-c: james, we have an engineer with ambitions of making the parts to build some Adam floppies
rich-c: OK Guy, take care, see you
james: yeah, i just tossed my dead drive and a bunch of floppies. have been cleaning up here
rich-c: he's talking now with dale
Guy B.: Poof
Guy B. left chat session
james: interesting
james: what kind of drives?
rich-c: mike, would a dead drive you could examine be of any use to you?
Dale: He would have liked the dead drive to analyse I bet.
james: drive is long gone
james: as far as i know
mikem: you mean a MI drive?
james: yeah
mikem: Yes!
Dale: But no.
Dale: Well, I certainly have an MI drive.
james: uhm.. might want to read my above post. i'll look around but i'm reasonably sure it's gone
rich-c: well, how about just the board? I think I may have one
james: apologies. had i known, i'd have set it aside for you
Dale: But I'm not sure when I'd get a chance to take it all apart to photograph it.
mikem: is it the 1.44m or 720k?
Dale: Maybe Rich Drushel has pictures of it disassembled.
Dale: It seems to me he did some pictures like that at one point.
rich-c: if it's just a picture of the motherboard you want, mike, I suspect we can get those
james: given the cheapness and ubuiquity of flash ram these days though, it might make more sense to build a drive based on that
james: would be far less prone to failure
rich-c: Dale, how far does the control board run under an MI drive? do you recall?
BobS: well guys, time to go here at Convention 21 headquarters.......... good luck with the disk drive issue Mike !!!
mikem: The drive I am wanting to build will have both
BobS: nite to ya'll
BobS left chat session
rich-c: nite bob, till next week
Daniel Bienvenu: when it comes to diskdrive, I'm lost, first because I had never the chance to use one that works, and second because .... of the first reason.
james: anyway, i'll take a look to see if i missed garbage day and if the drive is still around, if so, i'll pull it out if you need it
james: i should say controller
james: the original drive in it died a long time ago and i could never get a replacement drive to work
Dale: I think that the MI controller board is 5" by 3 or 4"
Dale: But I don't totally remember.
rich-c: I'm thinking in terms of effort after un screwing the case, for the camera to see it
Dale: Well a 64 MB flash RAM drive would be as big as the biggest harddisk that the Adam ever supported.
rich-c: I also have a lot of pieces from a Coleco drive that are expendable
Dale: I was planning to take a thumb drive and make an LCD menu to mount different virtual disks to use on the Adam.
Dale: Richard, it isn't so bad.
james: a flash based floppy i think would be ideal
rich-c: yes, but wouldn't you need a USB interface in the Adam, Dale?
Dale: The original Coleco controller board was a bear though. It was 5"x8" or something crazy like that.
james: you could buy a 1gb card for $5 and write a front end to swap a pile of disk images on it
james: that way you could have the best of both worlds - reliable, cheap and massive storage without sacrificing sound
Dale: Well, there is an AVR board that you can buy for $30, that provides that Richard.
rich-c: AVR - that's a tradename or something?
james: i'm going to go get my lunch. i'll check over at the house to see if i still have that drive in the garbage pile
james: bbiab
mikem: Has anyone reversed the internal rom in the Adam?
Dale: Yes, AVR is a family of microcontrollers
Dale: Yes, it is all reversed.
rich-c: sort of a latter-day update of the 6801 then, Dale?
Dale: Rich Drushel can provide you commented reversed versions of them all.
mikem: Ok
Dale: For higher level overview look at http://www.adamcon.org/eosprogman.html
rich-c: if you can get Rich to answer - he's quiet these days
Dale: Or even better, look at http://drushel.cwru.edu/atm/atm.html
Dale: You might also enjoy reading http://users.stargate.net/~drushel/pub/coleco/twwmca/
Dale: since Rich Drushel simulates hard disks, floppy disks and so on over the serial port that you can buy for the centre slot on the Adam.
Dale: That project is called Adam Serve.
mikem: Ok, I will take a look
Daniel Bienvenu: tonight I kinda understand what Dale is talking about, even if I'm not familiar with coleco diskdrives and eos programming. but earlier this week I was speechless and do not understand well a math-logic problem he got.
rich-c: remember I do own MI 320 and 720 floppy drives, a Coleco drive, a screwdriver and a camera
rich-c: if these play into any needs, we can help out there
mikem: So a 1.44m was never produced?
Dale: Yes, AVR are all 16-bit microcontrollers.
Daniel Bienvenu: twwmca, I took colecovision color palette information from this.
Dale: The one I have runs at up to 16 MHz as I recall.
rich-c: Dale, you have a 1.44 floppy drive, don't you?
james: back, with good news
Dale: The nice thing about AdamNET versus Adam Serve is that AdamNET is asyncronous, using DMA to load the data in from disk.
rich-c: the bad news will be postage prices from Japan
james: i have the drive, controller and power supply. seems the trash never got taken out
mikem: What was the defect in the drive?
Dale: Where as the serial port needs to be polled. There isn't even interrupts wired up on the serial boards. I was always annoyed about that.
james: i have reason to believe the controller still works actually
james: afaik, the drive is mechanically defunct
mikem: Was it a standard 3.5 floppy?
james: 5 1/4
rich-c: so mike, take it apart, find out what you need to from it (proven by getting ti working) and send it back ;-)
Dale: I had a 1.44 MB floppy drive. I gave it to Howard Pines to be repaired and never tracked down what happened to it after that.
rich-c: and that was the only 1.44 AMark ever made, wasn't it?
Dale: The only difference between a 3.5" floppy unit and a 5.25" floppy unit was a few bytes in the EEPROM.
james: anyway, i certainly have no qualms about sending all of this, but, as mentioned, the shipping will cost a bit
rich-c: and if Mike can get the source code from that?
Dale: Mark gave me counts of how many he made of each type of drive, when I interviewed him in 1996 I think.
james: i can send it surface, probably for on the order of $30 or so
james: you'd get it in about 5 weeks, theoretically.
Dale: It was between 50 and 100 of the 3.5" drives that he made.
Dale: Maybe 65?
Dale: He made a lot more of the 320k 5,25" ones.
james: if you can wait until october, i can bring it over
mikem: I probably only need the controller
rich-c: I know he made lots of 720s, but almost no 1.44s
mikem: I have a 5.25 drive here
Dale: Then an assortment of other ones: single sided 360k 3.5", and so on.
james: if you don't need the case and power supply, i could perform a bit of surgery and just send you the boards airmail, well wrapped
Daniel Bienvenu: For me, shipping to Ontario cost more than shipping to any states in US... I can ship a cartridge to Alaska for less and $7, but it will cost more than $24 to ship the exact same game to someone who live in Vancouver.
Dale: Yeah, there were a lot of the 1.44MB 3.5" drives that he made Richard.
Dale: I don't know where they all are now.
Dale: But they are out there somewhere.
rich-c: really? I had never heard that, and I have never seen one
Dale: Like I say, I believe that he said he made 65 of the 1.44 MB ones.
rich-c: Daniel, I doubt that shipping a controller board only from Japan will be very expensive
Dale: They look just like any other one
Dale: But I think he said he needed to run it at 2 MHz to make it go.
Dale: But I could be wrong about that.
james: airmail / ems for just the board, i'm guessing would be on the order of $20. you'd have it within a week
rich-c: well I'm sure the drive mechanism is identical, there's only one generic floppy design anyway
mikem: Does it use the same disk manager as the origional Adam drive
rich-c: just that the very early 3.5s were double density rather than quad (the Amiga is also a 720 variant)
Daniel Bienvenu: Do you think someone in Alaska can ship to Japan at a lower cost than someone from Vancouver? or being on the west coast means nothing in the equation?
james: nec did their drives a bit differently too
james: both their high density 5 1/4 and 3.5" drives are 1.25mb and logically the same
james: daniel - shipping rates are country to country
james: location within a country is not relevant in most cases
rich-c: I think Canadian postal rates are higher than American, foreign or domestic destinations
james: it costs me the same to send somthing to ontario as it does to b.c.
Daniel Bienvenu: well, inside canada it's also province to province.
mikem: You can ship it and then I can Paypal you the shipping cost
Dale: The Canadian rates were adjusted for the high gas prices.
rich-c: not basic first class, Daniel - parcels, yes
Dale: But I wonder if they will come back down now that the oil bubble appears to have burst.
james: i don't use paypal but you can send me a cheque drawn on an american account (in us$) no problem to my address in canada
Daniel Bienvenu: can you explain to me then why in US it's the same price everywhere, whatever the distance for parcels, not in Canada.
james: that's a question for canada post i think ;)
Daniel Bienvenu: $7 only to ship my game to anybody in US, including Alaska. For Canda it's a nightmare of different shipping cost.
mikem: I assume that each of the different MI drives all have different rom code or different eeprom code?
rich-c: I think USPS does have zones for parcels, too - just remember states are much smaller than provinces
james: i'd say texas is a little bigger than p.e.i. rich :D
rich-c: Dale, you'd know that
rich-c: yes, but you could drop it into Ontario and we'd barely notice it was there
james: anyway, mike, if you want it, i'll take the boards out of the case get it wrapped up and let you know what it comes to
mikem: Ok, great!
james: for shipping
Dale: just a few bytes different to set up number of sectors and tracks
james: consider the boards themselves a gift ;)
Dale: other than that they are all basically the same -- except for the 1.44MB drive that required special extra work.
mikem: you can email me at mikemallory@hotmail.com
mikem: What kind of work?????
james: i can be reached via email at: james (----at---) decarlo (----dot----) ca
james: mike, i'd be very interested in hearing about your project and how it progresses
james: as i'm sure others here would too
Dale: To read the 1.44 MB floppies and the 1.2 MB 5.25" floppies it required doubling the clock speed of the internal chips so that it could decode the MFM encoded information at the right speed.
Dale: But then AdamNET still runs at the same speed as always, so that code had to be slowed down I guess.
rich-c: it's OPK, james, we're counting on mike to be back here next week with more questions and reports 8-)
mikem: Sounds good
james: just dropped you an email
Dale: But if you know the AVR board well, then you should have lots of choices of how to implement it all.
Daniel Bienvenu: I wonder if it will cost me less than a direct shipping to Vancouver if I ask to someone in Alaska to get the package to ship it to the real destination?
rich-c: we're hoping so - you have sure livened things up tonight!
james: daniel, i find it hard to believe it costs $24 to ship a cartridge to b.c. that's very expensive.
Dale: Daniel, I can tell you that in my last business it was cheaper to drive all of my parcels over the boarder every day, than to ship them from Toronto.
mikem: I will try to get an answer from Rich
rich-c: no, because it will cost more to ship it to Alaska than to Vancouver, Daniel
Dale: We were sending about 50-300 photo orders every day.
james: wow
Daniel Bienvenu: wrong, it will cost only $7 to ship to Alaska, I did it once already last year.
rich-c: do though go on to the postes.canada website and get a calculation for your parcels - many would be "small packets" at different (non-parcel) rates
Dale: The problem is that shipping to US, the cartridge gets a special rate
james: i'd just drop the cartridge into a padded envelope
Daniel Bienvenu: $6.95 to be exact, to ship to everywhere in US
Dale: But when shipping inside Canada it is too thick to get the special rate.
Dale: So they charge the heavy rate for generic parcels.
Dale: It is the padded envelope that makes it too thick in Canada.
rich-c: yes, I have run into that a fewe times, but the "small packets" rate gets arlound it
Daniel Bienvenu: $7 to ship to Alaska, then maybe another $7 to ship back in Canada = $14, which is less than $24 for sure
Dale: The cheapest I could send a cartridge to Toronto was $9, but to California it was $5.95
Dale: Or $6.95 I guess.
rich-c: I mail so little now I've forgotten all the details, but do know about the rate problem
Daniel Bienvenu: you got better deal than me, Dale
Dale: And to the US, it was a trackable package too I think.
rich-c: it's like trying to ship anything UPS - they hammer you with brokerage charges
Daniel Bienvenu: to Toronto it cost me $11 or $13, I'm not quite sure
Dale: Well I was tempted to drive it there personally.
Dale: I'll tell you that.
james: that's ridiculous
Dale: Dave Hill from MTAG was going to order a MiniGames, but then changed his mind when he heard about the shipping cost I think.
rich-c: yes, Canada Post is a study in gred these days - comes from having a Tory government
james: i can ship heavy boxes full of stuff here for $7. granted there's a big, highly concentrated population here
Dale: The jump in rate is just because of the thickness of the padded envelope.
rich-c: Daniel, have you ever used the calculator on the Canada Post website?
Daniel Bienvenu: minigames at not minicost... I understand the problem
Dale: I have, and it made me very unhappy. :-D
mikem: Thanks for the help & info everyone, I will be back next time with an update. Bye
Dale: I'll see you later mikem
rich-c: bye mike, glad to see you
Daniel Bienvenu: I did use the calculator once, I prefer to know the price when I'm the post office, when it's almost too late to say "finally it's more for the shipping cost".
Dale: I look forward to your next visit.
james: bye mike!
mikem left chat session
rich-c: yes, they never tell you how they are calculating it, but do explain the options
rich-c: sometimes there is one you have overlooked that's cheaper
james: wonder what it costs from japan
rich-c: from Japan, likely (relatively) pennies - to Japan, well, you know
james: dan - is there someone you could trust on the u.s. side that could assemble and ship your carts?
rich-c: wonder of bob slopsema would do it if asked?
james: cause if it's that much cheaper to send from the u.s. to canada compared to within canada, it may be worth it
rich-c: and when you get to heavy high-value shipping, the rates aren't as bad
rich-c: anyway, we're into overtime, gentlemen, and it's time this old guy got his shuteye
james: and i should try to get a modicum of work done
Dale: Well, I vowed to go to bed early tonight.
rich-c: so I bid you all goodnight till next week (or for Daniel, bonsoir)
Dale: I guess I missed that goal...
rich-c: anyway, colour me gone
james: i'm making sweeping changes to scheduling this spring so i can work both my locations, and implementing a few other things
james: like more homework and report cards
james: bye rich!
rich-c left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: I think I know someone who can do that, helping me making games and ship them
james: something to consider, dan
Dale: Well that sounds better than what you were saying before James.
Dale: So that's good.
james: working on it. glad i started when i did so that come april it's ready to go
james: should make life easier
Dale: It sure should.
james: anyway, on that note, i should go too
james: will try to get on earlier next week
james: good night!
Dale: Later james.
james left chat session
Dale: Bye.
Dale: Poof
Daniel Bienvenu: we are alone...
Dale left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: ... so we should close the chat session for tonight.
Daniel Bienvenu: talk to you on messenger then
Daniel Bienvenu: bye
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AdamCon.org > chat > Thu 2009-01-22
Send comments to the feedback page. I am Dale Wick