AdamCon.org > chat > Thu 2009-08-27

Chat for Thu 2009-08-27 03:07:44

Paul 4: Hi Rich
changed username to BobS
Paul 4: Hi Bob
rich-c: hi Paul
BobS: Hi guys, was here a bit ago and nobody here
rich-c: and Bob
rich-c: paul, you having that much trouble with being booted off the chat?
moved to room Meeting Place
Paul 4: yes, got booted off several times the last meeting
changed username to Daniel Bienvenu
rich-c: well, I sort of half fell asleep - busy day
Daniel Bienvenu: I guess I'm not too late for tonight!
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Rich, Paul and Bob
Paul 4: Hi Daniel
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Frances, Judy and cie.
rich-c: bonsoir, Daniel - oui, tu es de bonne temps
rich-c: Frances as usual will be doing her own surfing tonight
rich-c: now that she effectively has her own computer, she's using it
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm getting even more visibility since I'm doing videos on Youtube about my Coleco projects.
BobS: hi Dnaiel
BobS: Daniel
rich-c: yes, they're a part of Google now, I believe, so you'll show up in all the searches
BobS: YES, got it but havent' had time to look at the MIB3 to see what it takes for cables
rich-c: uses the standard printer cable for the serial port, doesn't it, Bob?
rich-c: or ratehr the serial cable that the Adam printer card uses
Daniel Bienvenu: Someone on youtube did reccently post videos about Coleco Adam smartbasic stuff he did long time ago and recorded on a beta tape.
BobS: no, no richard. a kind of generic printer cabel for the paralle port, but different serila cables I htink
BobS: farn dingers
Daniel Bienvenu: I did invite him to check about the adamcon.
rich-c: isn't the MIB3 two parallel, one serial, or do I have it ass-aboput?
Paul 4: it's 2 serial
Paul 4: modem and terminal
rich-c: oops - OK, my bad
Paul 4: i could be wrong...i'm green
rich-c: yes, but you've looked at it more recently than 20 years ago
Paul 4: that might be true
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Meeka
Meeka: hello
rich-c: good evening, Meeka
moved to room Meeting Place
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Meeka
changed username to Guy B
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Guy B
Guy B: Greetings!!!
BobS: hi Mekka got the internet going eh?
BobS: hey GuyB
Guy B: Very cool and it rained most of the day
Meeka: yup
BobS: good, yo keep the weather there mon
rich-c: ah, Guy - how are things in Chicago today? We have quite a chill northern high here
Guy B: I made the mistake of not bringing a jacket when I left for work this morning
Guy B: Brb
rich-c: when I was out for a walk bit over an hour ago, I had to button up my cardigan
Daniel Bienvenu: My computer is slow tonight because I have many applications open at the same time and during a long time. As I was expecting, there is a problem with the memory manager system in Vista and right now I'm typing more faster than it appears on screen. I have to wait half a second to see the last word I did type.
rich-c: that's like teh Adam with a 1200 baud modem - teh video chip can't quite keep up
rich-c: brb - want to take off my shoes
BobS: darn computers, remind me WHY we use them?
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Daniel Bienvenu
Daniel Bienvenu: I did close up a few things and it seems faster already
Daniel Bienvenu: So it's really a problem I have with having multiple applications open at the same time during a long time.
Daniel Bienvenu: Did I miss something?
Daniel Bienvenu: I've decided to close my browser and run it again to somehow clean up the memory space.
rich-c: nope, not a thing
rich-c: you must have quite some computer if it's Vista capable - surprised you could swamp it
rich-c: my problem is that I clicked the wrong icon when closing down on patch Tuesday
rich-c: I used teh click without installing option to close my session
Daniel Bienvenu: My PC Windows 98SE is dead, My PC Windows XP is still working and that's great. My PC windows Vista is my multimedia unit, I use it to record tv and make animations and videos.
rich-c: so now it keeps wanting to install on exit but I don't know how to find out what it wants to install
rich-c: you must have a lot of memory and disc space then, Daniel, on the Vista machine
Daniel Bienvenu: And my next PC will probably be an old Pentium or 486... with a 5"1/4 floppy drive.
Daniel Bienvenu: I want to make a back up of my good old PC stuff I did during my "teenager" period.
rich-c: that will have considerable relevance to Colecovision game development, right?
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, an old PC is still useful for the good old things... I don't know if the 5"1/4 disk drive that I have can be used to make Coleco Adam disks, I've never tried that before.
Meeka: brb, need a drink
rich-c: sure it can - GuyB can tell you how, he wrote the utility you need
BobS: si senor
rich-c: you can also use the CD you got at Adamcom, it has Adamserve on it
Daniel Bienvenu: The guy I did talk about earlier, did post a few videos that was originally recorded on beta tapes. In at least one Coleco Adam project, he did make the beta pause and unpause to record automatically all images generated by his program to give an animation result in 3D made in SmartBasic, simply looks amazing. I had the impressin of seeing the making of the movie called Tron at one point.
Daniel Bienvenu: http://www.youtube.com/user/rbairos2
Daniel Bienvenu: His name is Rob... and he did subscribe to the Adamcon mailing list.
rich-c: not our long-time member Robert Bair? He left out group after a personal family tragedy
Daniel Bienvenu: so, you may know him
Meeka: back
rich-c: Indiana, works with Emergency Services? if so, that's him
Daniel Bienvenu: his username in youtube is rbairos2... so robert bair is a 100% match.
BobS: Rbo Friedman??????
Daniel Bienvenu: r-bair-os2
Daniel Bienvenu: hmmmm... his full name in a video is Rob Bairos
rich-c: could be a coincidence - or some attempt at a pseudonym
Daniel Bienvenu: 1985, he was living at the city Cambridge, in Canada
rich-c: if he wants to keep active yet protect his priovacy that would make sense
rich-c: OK, our Robert Bair was a Hoosier born and bred, I believe
BobS: and not into videos on the net I doubt
Daniel Bienvenu: so, he did ask me what are the dates for Adamcon 22.
rich-c: well, The Bair withdrew into himself some time ago - he could be easing out
BobS: nope
Daniel Bienvenu: I told me that it wasn't decided yet
rich-c: well you can't tell him till you know the date for the Grand Prix of Canada
rich-c: you are going to have to work around that, also the Fete de St-Jean Batiste
Guy B: Ok back. Sometime in September, I'll be moving my website to it's new home. I'll make an announcement on the list
Daniel Bienvenu: That's good news Guy B.
rich-c: maybe a couple of announcements, Guy - some of us may miss it first time round
Daniel Bienvenu: My geocities web site still up and I didn't work on my new web site yet. but I'm thinking of what he may looks like.
Guy B: Ok, I do have most everyone's e-mail addresses
rich-c: well as long as you put it out on the Coladam list that should do
Guy B: That was the plan anyway
Daniel Bienvenu: testing...
rich-c: long as Dale keeps it up and running
rich-c: we're seeing you, Daniel
Daniel Bienvenu: I did close the web page by mistake but this time the applet seems to keep going
rich-c: yes, there in one key on certain keyboards that's easy to hit by mistake, and dumps you
Daniel Bienvenu: but I'm still there, not dumped, that's not normal
Daniel Bienvenu: ... ah I see, there was multiple browsers. so the adam chat page still there, I didn't close it
rich-c: strange things happen on Windows computerss, Daniel - sometimes even good things
rich-c: when I need another browser away from chat I open IE; it's hard to get a new tab in Firefox
rich-c: the chat applet maximizes and covers up the home page tabs
Daniel Bienvenu: a new tab in firefox or google chrome is fairly easy... the hot key is "CTRL T"
Guy B: By the way, Firefox 3.5 is out. I'm downloading it now
rich-c: OK, it's different enough you will find some websites do not recognize it as Firefox
rich-c: that's probably an artifact of its enhanced security function
rich-c: now that I have FF3.5 installed I no longer need the SR-Iron browser
Daniel Bienvenu: I've find out that Google Chrome javascript is really fast, but also not accurate, causing me to not use it for a "serious usage".
rich-c: by the way, FF 3.5 works just fine with the latest Java
rich-c: Chrome uses the Webkit engines, same as Safari, doesn't it?
Meeka left chat session
Daniel Bienvenu: That's not correct. I've installed Safari for Windows to compare and I have good results with Safari about the accuracy of the Javascript, not with Google chrome.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Pamela
rich-c: hello daughter
Guy B: HI Pam
Pamela: hi there
Pamela: sorry I'm late
Pamela: busy nite
rich-c: Daniel, there is a new browser out, from Japan, called Lunascape - it has an English version
Pamela: what did I miss?
rich-c: not a great deal this time
BobS: hi pam
rich-c: Lunascape lets you use your choice of Trident, Gecko, or Webkit browser engines
rich-c: I gather it's aimed as page developers who want to see who their page will look in each of IE, FF, Safari, Netscape, Chrome, etc
Daniel Bienvenu: hi Pam!
Daniel Bienvenu: I wanted to ask you a question
Pamela: hey Daniel
Pamela: go ahead
Pamela: tick, tick, tick . . .
Daniel Bienvenu: It's about the new character in the story started by Dale and Jeffrey, the science teacher. I want to know your opinion about a few things like ...
Daniel Bienvenu: (I'm not typing fast tonight)
Pamela: it's okay, I'm just pulling your tail : )
Daniel Bienvenu: ... the name of her husband, hair color,
Daniel Bienvenu: things like that
Pamela: do you have opinions?
rich-c: Pam, posted the table last night - any action?
Pamela: dunno Dad, I haven't checked my g-mail today, didn't have time
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Annie
Annie requested to ban Guy B
rich-c confirmed ban
Pamela confirmed ban
Annie changed username to Guy B
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, I was thinking that Russel should be a good name for the husband, but I think I will let you decided if she's having blond hairs, if she likes cats, etc.
Guy B: Back, looked like the electricity was about to go out. So, it affected the system
Pamela: well I happen to think that Russell is an excellent name for a husband but I'm somewhat prejudiced : )
rich-c: Are you on teh desktop, Guy, and don't you have a UPS?
BobS confirmed ban
Pamela: the question I have for you with that is, since this is for Jeffrey, will naming him Russell put a picture of my
Pamela: Russell in his head?
Pamela: and is that what you want?
Guy B: I have both the laptop and the desktop up, no UPS
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, my idea was to add someone he knows, but still fictional at some degrees
Pamela: geez Guy, what is it about Wednesdays that set off storms in chicago?
Daniel Bienvenu: she's a science teacher
Daniel Bienvenu: at a good university
rich-c: well, the laptop just switches to battery if the power goes, but the desktop is anotehr proposition
Guy B: There's no storms going at the moment
Daniel Bienvenu: she married the director of the university a few years ago
Guy B: Might have been a surge
Pamela: as far as I'm concerned it's okay but before I say yes unreservedly I should probably ask his permission
Pamela: I suspect he'd be flattered : )
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm more concern about your permission to add or not details that will make this character more closer to you and a totally other person.
rich-c: somehow I don't think Russell's image is the university director type
rich-c: maybe you should think of Ron Mitchell as your model
Daniel Bienvenu: What about a mix... like Russel Mitchell ?
Pamela: it's Daniel's story, Dad (and Dale and Jeffrey's of course) - he's entitled to some literary licence
Daniel Bienvenu: (I'm having trouble writing Russell with 2 Ls)
rich-c: then just use one, Daniel - as Pam just said, it's your story
Daniel Bienvenu: sorry Russell, I did mistype your name a couple of times
Pamela: I won't tell him : )
Daniel Bienvenu: But he may check the log
rich-c: I doubt he'll care, Daniel
Daniel Bienvenu: So, Pam, what kind of pet do you like? if yes, can you give me a name for one?
rich-c: I see we have lost Paul again
Daniel Bienvenu: I guess it's my fault again
Pamela: anything small and furry is fine Daniel - cats, dogs, etc.
rich-c: no, he had already been dumped four times before I came on
Daniel Bienvenu: I should talk more about Coleco stuff
Daniel Bienvenu: Pam, what about a furby?
Pamela: LOL
Pamela: that would do too : )
rich-c: I guess I'd better not suggest a tribble
Pamela: as long as he doesn't feed it we're okay : )
Daniel Bienvenu: but the name furby is probably copyrighted so I will use something else
Pamela: name will depend on appearance and personality Daniel
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Judy
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Judy
Pamela: Inky was so named because he was black, but it was also short for Mr. Inquisitive because he always stuck his nose into everything
Guy B: Hi Judy
Judy: Hi, everyone
Pamela: Hi Judy
rich-c: hello Judy
Pamela: (Inky was a cat, by the way)
Judy: just got home from Michigan Adventure
rich-c: what's that?
Judy: I am soo tired
Judy: amusement park
Daniel Bienvenu: Inky the mister inquisitive cat, sounds cool!
Judy: about an hour from here
Pamela: I believe it, those things wear you out!
Judy: keeping up with three boys sure does
rich-c: oh, something like Six Flags or such?
Judy: but I went on almost everything they did
Pamela: you should have seen me after 12 hours at Wonderland with three kids and four teens
Judy: yes, with a water park
rich-c: and you're still standing? wow, you've gotta be tough stuff
Judy: that I am
Pamela: on the roller coasters too Judy?
Daniel Bienvenu: Does Pam the science teacher have kids?
Pamela: and the big water slides?
Judy: oh, yes
Judy: the worst ride in the park
Pamela: that's up to you Daniel
Daniel Bienvenu: how many kids?
Judy: upside down,backward and whatever else they could dream up
BobS: perverts design them things
rich-c: career science teachers tend to keep their families down
Pamela: how's the stomach, Judy?
BobS: YUCK
Judy: wasn't good after that ride but other than that one did all right
Pamela: bear with me Daniel, I'll get to the number but question first: where are you taking the story?
Pamela: good for you Judy, I've given up on roller coasters
Pamela: too jerky
Pamela: what I mean is, are you going to send her (or them) wandering all over the world?
rich-c: Bob, looking for suggestions on a trailer problem
BobS: and it is???????
rich-c: my stone guad is broken and teh fibreglas shield has vanished - likely from stormsa
Judy: that doesn't sound good, rich
BobS: sell it without
rich-c: indeed it isn't, since we want to sell it
rich-c: I'd like to offer the buyer some clues on how to handle it, though
BobS: see how much it costs and sell it with the stipulation that you will pay for it but the buyer take it to the trailer place to get it
rich-c: is it something a trailer shop would have? couldn't find any on the 'net
rich-c: lots of parts places but none that mentioned carrying stone guards
BobS: should have it
rich-c: if they do, up here I can guess what they would cost
rich-c: wonder if teh Fleetwood plant in ALindsay is still open?
Pamela: try Tyssens on Hwy. 48, Dad
rich-c: OK, will see what I can turn up
rich-c: Fleetwood is bankrupt; any idea what happened to their trailer business?
BobS: whoops
rich-c: there's hardly a trailer maker that hasn't gone bankrupt, Bob
rich-c: Winnebago is among the few RV survivors but they are having a real tough time
BobS: don't see any guards at Camping World
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, back in the student time of Bill, the main character, Pauline was also a student at that time. Pauline asked Pamela to talk to the director to allow her to be part of an important trip because Bill was selected to go to the jungle and find a cure to a mysterious desease. Pamela accepted and during the trip Bill did offer a ring to Pauline as a sign of his love for her. After months at the jungle, Pauline had an accident when looking for new plants to analyze for a possible cure and get lost in the middle of nowhere. Wihtout finding her, Bill did try to find her by himself without success and lost his drive to find a cure. Back at the university the news had the effect of a bomb and the director was pointed to be responsable and lost his job and Pamela did try to keep going even if she feels responsable for this situation. Years later, Pauline come back suddently with a big surprise for Bill, a son, and she did try to him for help, but something was strange about Pauline and the situation was not going well. A few moments later, Pauline decided to return to the university to maybe find someone to help her and tried to talk back to Pamela without success because she refuses the possibility and return back into deep sad feelings. That's the background for the story so far.
Daniel Bienvenu: So, I want to make a scene with Pauline finally keeping the attention of Pamela, by visiting her at her house. So, I will need a few social things to say about what happend during all these years for Pamela.
rich-c: somehow or other I don't see Camping world carrying something like that - too much inventory too slow moving
Pamela: okay, if you're not going to send her off wandering the world, kids are okay - two or three, I think
rich-c: like, we have a problem now but it's the first of that type in 35 years of trailering
Pamela: or maybe not yet, but soon, because I gather they haven't been married very long
rich-c: and I get teh feeling others have trouble even less often
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, it was a well know that Pamela the teacher was married witht he director of the university back then
Daniel Bienvenu: how old she is now? I don't know
BobS: best bet is s local trailer dealer
Pamela: is she the same age as Bill? That would make her early thirties, according to Dale
rich-c: Toronto is too expensive to have any of those, Bob
BobS: take the brackets off so it don't look like it ever had one and act dumb
Pamela: you know Dad, stone guards are there to live up to their name so they must have some turnover
BobS: how often will a stone get that high and hit anyting????
BobS: not much
Daniel Bienvenu: Let's say that Pamela was at least 5 years older than Pauline and Bill.
rich-c: yes, but they are also more or less unique to each model - I'm curioius how common the basic parts might be
BobS: I think they serve better as an awning for the window
Daniel Bienvenu: well, was is not the appropriate verb time
Daniel Bienvenu: because she's alive
BobS: ANd a bug catcher so the window doesn't get bugged
Pamela: 1-800-263-1266 is the number for Tyssen trailers, Dad
rich-c: yes, and they end to be raather vulnerable to sudden gusts of wind
rich-c: yes, and that's a definite necessity, Bob
rich-c: I'll bet they have a website too, Pam - but why did you suggest Tyssen?
Pamela: because they service as well as sell, Dad
Pamela: www.tyssentrailers.com
rich-c: so do all teh big trailer dealers - those that are left
Pamela: and it's close to our trailer - it's where ours was purchased from
Pamela: we've had good service from them over the years
Pamela: is the frame still on the trailer Dad?
Pamela: (sorry Daniel, back to you in a moment)
rich-c: but they have never handled any Fleetwood lines, Pam, and lean toward park trailers
Pamela: it never hurts to ask Dad
rich-c: yes, the frame is there, but broken in teh top left corner
rich-c: I can't tell how badly as I can't get up there
Pamela: can it be screwed back together?
rich-c: I have no way top tell, don't know what the original fastener was
Pamela: okay, assuming it can be put back together perhaps the answer is a piece of smoky coloured lexan, cut to fit
rich-c: if it was a pop rivet it might be fixable if I had a pop rivet tool, which I don't
BobS: got an idea there Pam
rich-c: including radiused corners - fun, fun, fun
BobS: pop rivet guns are cheap OR use nut and bolts
Pamela: gives you a certain amount of privacy when closed, reasonably resistant to chips and dents, and relatively light
rich-c: I don't by teh way think the problem is insoluble, just challenging to find teh source of labour and materials
BobS: lexan would be expensive, a smoked acrylic would work fine
rich-c: yes, but I don't know the sources for such things - I'm not a builder : - )
rich-c: and remember that I cannot move the trailer
BobS: Home Depot , Lowes, or similar
rich-c: not sure they carry such stuff here, but a likely source and will cut to fit
rich-c: still have to get a repairman up to the trailer
Daniel Bienvenu: so... first of all, I need a little something that will convince Pamela that Pauline is back and she's the person at her front door.
Pamela: Daniel, Russell is here and says yes, he's happy to appear in your story
Guy B: Well folks, one dog will be going out for a walk soon. I'll see you all next week
Daniel Bienvenu: say hello to Russell for me
Pamela: he says hi back to everyone
Pamela: goodnight Guy
Daniel Bienvenu: bye guy
Guy B: Poof
Guy B left chat session
moved to room Meeting Place
Daniel Bienvenu: (try to convince Dale to join us)
changed username to Dale
Dale: Hi ya.
Daniel Bienvenu: (it works)
Pamela: Hi Dale
Daniel Bienvenu: Hi Dale
Pamela: we're busily creating characters for the Adventures of Bill
rich-c: nite Guy
Judy: hi, Dale
Daniel Bienvenu: Dale, based on our time, in what time occurs the Bill's adventure?
rich-c: hi Dale
Daniel Bienvenu: is it the past? the future?
Dale: It occurs around now.
rich-c: anyway, Bob, do you know if such a thing as a trailer junkyard exists?
BobS: no Richard
Dale: our time.
BobS: BUT we need to hit the hay 'cause tomorrow is a four letter day
rich-c: looks like the old keybaord will be taking a beating the next few days, then
Daniel Bienvenu: ok, so I'm thinking of something that may convince Pamela that the woman infront of her is really Pauline... a song. I need lyrics of a song that both may know and did maybe sing togheter when Pauline was student.
BobS: WORK
rich-c: right Bob - take care, good night, and see you next week
Pamela: a word I know all too well Bob
Pamela: goodnight then
Pamela: and to you Judy
rich-c: and Judy too - you've earned your rest!
Daniel Bienvenu: bye Bob
Pamela: take a day to rest tomorrow Judy
Daniel Bienvenu: take care Judy
BobS: see ya's next week
Dale: bye bob
BobS: hi and goodbye Dale
Judy: yes, am planning on spending the day in bed, not really
Judy: night all
Pamela: good call : )
BobS left chat session
Judy left chat session
Pamela: hmm
Pamela: I may need to think about that one Daniel
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to rbairos
Daniel Bienvenu: rob bairos
rbairos: Hi Everyone.
rbairos: Hi Daniel
rich-c: we have a newcomer - hello, Rob
Pamela: hi Rob
Dale: Hi there.
rbairos: not sure if anyone was still going to around at 11.
rich-c: Danile was telling us a bit about you - says you're Canadian in background
Daniel Bienvenu: I did talk a little bit about your videos I've seen on youtube reccently.
rbairos: thats great ;) havent really had a chance to talk about them much since i made them years ago
rich-c: we normally arent but folks got talking so we overshot the "witching hour" by a few minutes
rbairos: Yah, Im in Toronto, Ontario, but grew up about an hour away in Cambridge
rbairos: You're all Adam Coleco fans?
Daniel Bienvenu: your video about a bbs mention cambridge city
Dale: We are.
rich-c: you're in Toronto? which part? I'm in North York, Pam is in Weston
rbairos: yah, its my parents old address. their phone number is still the same, so i had to blur it out
rbairos: Im right downtown near Richmond , Spadina
Dale: I'm in Whitby.
rbairos: everyones canadian here
rich-c: wow, you are really downtown, though not far from where Pam works
Daniel Bienvenu: I have to admit that I didn't own a Coleco Adam before the year 2000, but I did know a friend who had one and we did play Super Buck Rogers a few times with the flying eggs shape, etc.
Pamela: yes, our Yanks just went to bed : (
rbairos: ive been living mostly downtown since about 1996
Dale: It seems so this time.
rbairos: are there many others on this chat?
rbairos: I remember Super Buck Rogers..
rich-c: Bob and his wife Judy just left, Paul fell off early, Guy went home at 11 - who else>
rich-c: ?
Dale: The peak is usually at about 10:00 pm, and there are 10-20 people depending on their availability.
Daniel Bienvenu: At this hour, it's normal to be only a few left.
Pamela: Daniel, I'm going to put some thought into your questions and I'll either e-mail you or respond next week, okay?
rbairos: sure
Daniel Bienvenu: That's great Pam! And if you have no idea at all, next week at the chat just let me know.
rbairos: What types of things do yall normally talk about?
Pamela: okay
Dale: Anything at all.
Daniel Bienvenu: weather, gas price, health, computers, and also coleco relatd subjects
rich-c: well, because we all know each other so well, it's very often family matters or personal hobbies
rbairos: thats good youre a community
Dale: If you browse the archives we talk about politics, weather, and the odd Coleco Adam or ColecoVision topic.
rich-c: but whenever an Adam person turns up, we talk about whatever they want to know
Pamela: gentlemen, I'm heading for bed. Sorry to say hi and run Rob, but you're always welcome
rbairos: Have a good night Pamela
Pamela: you too : )
Daniel Bienvenu: goodnight Pamela, talk to you next week
Pamela: Dale, Daniel - good night
rich-c: OK daughter, don't forget my coffee, it's running low
Dale: Goodnight Pam.
Pamela: haven't forgotten Dad
rich-c: now all you need to do is come by ; -)
Dale: The history of a weekly Adam chat goes back to CompuServe/GEnie days in the 1980s.
rich-c: don't forget to check your gmail
Pamela: Okay, I will. I'll see you in the next few days, Dad. Goodnight.
rich-c: night, sleep tight
Pamela: kerpoof
rbairos: I cant remember my first live chat, but I remember writing a two person chat program for the Icon Qnix system in um.. 1985 ish
Pamela left chat session
rbairos: it crashed alot
Dale: lol
Daniel Bienvenu: I really want to know how you made these incredible 3d effects, looks complicated with a bunch of COS SIN formulas.
rbairos: anyone care if i talk about it a minute or so?
rich-c: Dale used to write programs like that, He's better at it now.
rbairos: It started with a book 'Graphics Programming for the Apple II' I think it was called (its still on my bookshelf)
rbairos: It had a bunch of basic programs for drawing coordinates in 3-d space, and the apple II graphics were extremely similar to the Adam Basic
rich-c: you go for it, this old guy is getting worn around the edge - Rob, great to meet you, hope to see you next week
Dale: Please do.
moved to room Meeting Place
changed username to Pamela
Dale: What is the youtube URL Daniel?
Daniel Bienvenu: Pam?
Pamela: sorry to interrupt again
Pamela: Dad, three responses so far - when did you post?
Daniel Bienvenu: look for rbairos2
rich-c: last night - if you got Fatima Yasmin she didn't read teh post first time
Dale: I had that book.
rbairos: Blue cover?
rich-c: anyway, maybe this time we get lucky
Dale: Yup.
rbairos: i loved it. i found resources for the Adam so hard to come by.
Pamela: nope, no Fatima. okay, gonna go read the post and will let you know. Hope we do, I'd like my dining room back. Okay, I'm outta here.
Pamela: ciao, guys
rbairos: So basically I used those algorithms to draw 3d wireframe objects. The book had the house, then I experimented with some simple objects plotted out on graph paper
Daniel Bienvenu: bye Pam!
Pamela: kerpoof!
Pamela left chat session
rich-c: talk to me about Adam resources next week - there are lots
Daniel Bienvenu: I guess I should say also : goodnight Rich!
rbairos: goodnight Rich.
rich-c: yes, time to go - goodnight all
rbairos: But the major obstacle for those graphics routine was the slow speed at which they would run
Dale: I got my copy at the World's Biggest Book Store.
Dale: It was quite a trip.
rbairos: back then or recently, Dale?
rich-c: colour me gone
rich-c left chat session
Dale: Back then. Maybe 1986 or 1987.
rbairos: so Id render a frame, record a couple seconds on the Betamax, then render the next frame, etc.
rbairos: The first two or three tests are all done by hand that way. Took hours.
Dale: How did Max Headroom get in your Coleco Adam Video <grin>
Daniel Bienvenu: lol
rbairos: haha. I think theres also a still from a late night City Tv movie
rbairos: so they only way to view the results would be to play the tape in forward scan.
rbairos: Even the youtube videos are about 5 times faster the vcr forward scan. Literally , it took 20 years to see it at the intended speed
Dale: I developed a method of drawing it, and saving the frames in the 64k ram expander.
rbairos: as a bitmap that you could then rapidly copy back to the screen buffer?
Dale: Yes.
rbairos: nice. how many frames would fit?
Dale: It was compressed, so it depended on the amount of stuff on the screen.
rbairos: my setup got very mouse-trappy at the end. I used the printer head to manually touch two wires that were connected to the vcr pause button.
Dale: So the first method used 32k of buffering, and could do 8 frames of a sine wave surface animation.
rbairos: how was it compressed? was it just single color frames? run length encoded?
Dale: But later I did compression and I had 200 frames that fit in 56k.
Daniel Bienvenu: 200 frames in 56K... is it the dices animation demo?
Dale: Just single colour worked best. You can only write a limited amount before you get artifacts.
Dale: The dice animation video yes.
rbairos: I hated the fact that two colours in the same 8 pixel span bled together.
Dale: Runlength encoded, plus delta encoded, so frame coherence was a bonus.
rbairos: what languages did you develop in? i never got past smartbasic with a few hooks to some small assembler routines
Dale: that work was mostly done in smartbasic with hand assembled machine language.
Dale: Gradually I started using CP/M or TDOS more
rbairos: Where did you find different utilities? I felt quite isolated as an Adam user in Cambridge.
rbairos: I knew one other in my highschool who had one.
Dale: and there I had various compilers and assemblers. Pascal, C, and of course assembler.
rbairos: Nice, I wasnt introduced to those things until a few years later.
Dale: Well there was the Metro Toronto Adam Group which met monthly for over 10 years.
Dale: And newsletters
Dale: And BBSes
Dale: And CompuServe
Dale: And of course AdamCon conferences from 1989 on.
rbairos: Yah, my brother and I got a newsletter sent to us from a KW group once, and ordered "The Hackers Guide to Adam". It was miraculous
Dale: For sure.
Daniel Bienvenu: (I have a copy of it)
Daniel Bienvenu: (not wanted to interrupt you)
rbairos: I gave mine up, as well as all my other adam paraphenalia a few months ago to www.pcmuseum.ca
rbairos: Did you do those online things with the Adam SmartLink 110 baud modem, or were there other modems?
Dale: That's too bad.
rbairos: Im happy all my stuff found a loving home.
Dale: Well I had a Sydmodem which was 1200 baud, for a long time.
Dale: Later I got an Orphanware serial card.
Daniel Bienvenu: 1200 baud?
rbairos: You could use that with an Adam?
Daniel Bienvenu: that was fast for that time
Dale: And finally I got the Microinnovations MIB (dual serial, parallel, and boot prom slot)
rbairos: Adam compatible??
Daniel Bienvenu: I think the modem I have for the Commodore 64 was 600 baud, maybe 1200 baud max.
Dale: Designed by one of the members of MTAG (the Toronto Adam group)
Dale: Syd Carter.
Daniel Bienvenu: yeah, I did grow up with Commodore computers
rbairos: Sounds like the Toronto Adam group really dove deep and explored the system quite a bit.
Dale: The sydmodem worked great. I used to use it in University to surf the Internet.
Dale: Mostly Usenet user groups or a little bit of gopher sites.
rbairos: And Im guessing you didnt use the SmartLink software. I found that quite limiting in those days.
Dale: No, the CP/M software was much better.
rbairos: No screen capture, download, or upload etc.
Daniel Bienvenu: the only internet-like network I know from the 80s was named "the source", and it wasn't free
rbairos: I guess thats why we taped the output to the vcr ;)
Dale: It could leverage software from other computers, since CP/M worked on about two dozen different systems at the time.
rbairos: I think I remember "The Source" referenced on an episode of "Bits and Bytes"
Dale: I had zmodem, xmodem and ymodem downloading and uploading from CP/M
rbairos: Now was CP/M an operating system? I just vaguely remember it being offered in those days.
Daniel Bienvenu: I did watch Bits and Bytes in french version called Octopuce (Octo = 8, puce = chip, in refence to 8-bit chip)
rbairos: I do remember x/y/zmodem from early PCs though.
Dale: Yes it was.
Dale: I paid lots of money every month for Compuserve.
rbairos: I guess with 'SmartLink' even if it did have up/download there would be nowhere to save it to.
Dale: The source turned into GEnie maybe?
Dale: I do remember it for sure, but I was never a member. My brother was for a while though I think.
Daniel Bienvenu: The only free thing I remember is the popular BBS everybody seems to start all around the country
Daniel Bienvenu: there was at least one for the Commodore owners
Daniel Bienvenu: where I was living back then
Dale: Well I never had a Coleco disk drive, just the after market drives.
rbairos: Do you mind if I ask you both your ages, just to get perspective of your experiences in the mid 80s?
Dale: First I had one from IHMS.
Daniel Bienvenu: In year 1980, I was 5 years old
Dale: Then a couple from Microinnovations.
rbairos: I was 9, in 1980, but got the computer in 1984 I think.
Dale: Microinnovations made everything 3rd party that you could want for the Adam it seems.
Daniel Bienvenu: I got my first computer at age 9, for christmas, in 1984
Dale: I am 37 nos.
Dale: So I got the Adam in 1985 and I was in grade 7 or 8.
rbairos: Im 38.
Daniel Bienvenu: and I'm 34
rbairos: ah.
rbairos: Sounds like you both had lots of access to computer development tools in your middle teen years. Thats great
Daniel Bienvenu: So, I'm younger but not young enough to not have the experience of the 80s
rbairos: yup
rbairos: Dale, how did you pick up compression techniques, etc at that age?
Daniel Bienvenu: my first contact with a computer was in summer 1984, I was turning 9 years old.
rbairos: where was it Daniel?
Daniel Bienvenu: My first experience with data compression was only later, when my brother did own a Commodore 64
Dale: I did a lot of reading on Compuserve. I implemented RLE medium image format in 1986, since it was the format that Compuserve used for weather maps and for image exchange.
rbairos: Ive never experience compuserve myself.
Dale: And in 1987 when GIF came out I worked hard to understand it, and I did GIF viewer and creator for the Adam over the next couple of years.
Dale: I also had several books on graphics file formats, and I was really into that kind of thing.
rbairos: After my brother and I got the modem, the only places we need to call were in KW (which was still long distance in the mid 80s) so we were only allowed to make tiny calls.
rbairos: thats great Dale
Dale: Around here there were probably 20-40 BBSes over the middle of the 1980s.
Daniel Bienvenu: My first contact with a computer, in a camping. during vacation, I've seen some kids using a computer at the camping... game center sort of with arcade machines like Wizard of Wor, and it appears that this computer was the property of the camping director's son (or whatever you name it)
rbairos: Yah I watched your youtube vid
Daniel Bienvenu: One day, I did go check the computer and try it by myself, without ;permission
rbairos: what did you see?
Dale: I also had, or had access to other computers, including my notebook computer, the TRS-80 Model 100 with a built in 300 baud modem. My brother got that in 1983 and I got my own in 1986.
Daniel Bienvenu: instead of telling me that I should not do that, the kids who used it earlier talk to me and in fact introduce me to basic language.
rbairos: Dale you were in a computer wonderland!
Dale: The BBSes changed seasonally, but I always looked for the latest lists, and was quite active on some of them.
Daniel Bienvenu: unfortunately for me, I was unable to understand, because I was not speaking english at that time and I was in Ontario
Daniel Bienvenu: But I did know a few things about BASIC language before because of newspaper articles.
Daniel Bienvenu: and that's prety much it
rbairos: yah that was my first language as well.
Dale: I also occasionally (monthly maybe) called Adam specific ones in the US, but it was really long distance, so I had to get on, download and read offline ,the call back and post reponses.
rbairos: My first contact was in grade 4. (1979?) on a school trip to the KW newspaper . The editors were typing into terminals and sending rolls of punch tape into glass cylinders to vacuum tubes upstairs. It was pretty neat.
rbairos: )I mean *through* vaccuum pipes throughout the building)
Daniel Bienvenu: 1979?
Dale: Yes, my 3 older brothers are about 8 and 10 years older than me and they got a computer in 1980.
Daniel Bienvenu: tubes?
Daniel Bienvenu: it can't be a pdp 11
rbairos: Yah 1979 it must have been, maybe 1980. 1971 + 5 + 4 = 1980. oops
Dale: So I'd been using computers for a long time when I got the Adam, and was very pleased that it had the familiar Z80 that I already knew assembly language for.
rbairos: Yah I did a little Z80 programming on the Adam once I found a book on the topic at a flea market
rbairos: Re: pdp11. I didnt see the computer itself, just the terminals they were typing on, and the resulting punch tape
Dale: It was the TRS-80 Model 1 (level 2 with 16k of ram, and the optional numeric keypad)
Daniel Bienvenu: rodney zak book about z80 programming is my favorite z80 assembler book<
rbairos: ah I think that was the one... Yellow grayish I think, small sized book ?
Dale: I had that book since I was in Grade 3. I found it a bit dry back then :-D
Daniel Bienvenu: mine is actually french edition, and the english version I know si white and red
rbairos: Re: tubes (plastic tubes running along the wall, that they inserted these capsules into, containing the punch tape)
Dale: But nowadays there is a great reference at z80.info
Daniel Bienvenu: punching a tape? that could be then a pdp 11
Dale: 1980, back in the days when Byte magazine published type in programs every month.
rbairos: I had no idea I was so close to a pdp 11 then.
rbairos: You both do programming now then?
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm trying my best to program many things, specially retro games... but today... just look retro
rbairos: Yah I watched some of your vids Daniel, very neat.
rbairos: I work for a realtime computer graphics company in Toronto. Started in 96.
Daniel Bienvenu: If I'm talking many times about pdp11 is because I did watch reccently a series of videos about the subject introducing to program the tapes in different ways, with and without a compiler
Daniel Bienvenu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XV-7J5y1TQc
Daniel Bienvenu: I find these videos funny and very interresting
Dale: I started a robotics company with two partners 3 years ago now. Lots of math, and 3D stuff there.
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Rob Bairos: oops!
Daniel Bienvenu: welcome back
Dale: This is my last PSP homebrew game: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pSfyvsQR7Q
Rob Bairos: didnt know the main window had to remain active
Daniel Bienvenu: the applet can't exist without teh browser who loaded it
Dale: A gotchya for sure Rob.
Dale: I am working on a couple of ColecoVision games as well. Due to Daniel's encouragement.
Rob Bairos: If only we had access to these development tools back in 1985.
Dale: My first ColecoVision game in cartridge I did last summer.
Daniel Bienvenu: technically I think it's because the browser is the parent and if the parent doesn't exist the application which is teh son can't exists too. it's the back to the future paradox
Rob Bairos: watching the psp game now.
Dale: So that's all written in C I guess.
Dale: On the PSP I use either C or C++ usually.
Rob Bairos: Including all the menuing and character skeletons etc? or are there some libs ?
Dale: For ColecoVision games I've always used assember for anything serious.
Daniel Bienvenu: mostly C++ for PSP and DS development, because it's object-oriented
Dale: But this year Daniel got his library working with SDCC, and it is great to work with for cross compiling.
Rob Bairos: thats great.
Daniel Bienvenu: I know a devkit named devkitpro which allow to program in C++ games for DS and PSP. there are opengl-like libraries to program these homebrew psp and ds games.
Dale: The PSP stuff is 3D accelerated with the PSP's GPU. But most of the stuff is all coded from scratch using the PSP's OpenGL like library.
Rob Bairos: I spend much time wondering how awed I would have been in the mid 80s thinking about the resources available today
Rob Bairos: Thats quite impressive
Dale: Yes, the PSP is 100 to 20000 times faster than the Adam for 3D game developement.
Rob Bairos: I bet
Daniel Bienvenu: Well, because of my experience with Vic-20 and C=64 computers, I have tendencies to optimize everything in size and try to improve speed with limited space is not easy because precalculated stuff takes less time.
Rob Bairos: At work optimization is a constant goal.
Dale: It has an FPU, Vector FPU (for parallel matrix calculations for example), a GPU and a second MIPS with a DSP.
Rob Bairos: Though we program in C++, we also use GPU acceleration for many things
Daniel Bienvenu: Where I did work reccently, the only optimization they needed was speed... don't really care about space.
Rob Bairos: I had no idea it was so loaded.
Rob Bairos: Do either of you do hardware projects as well?
Dale: Well I do a bit. Mostly at work though when I'm working on robotics.
Rob Bairos: What kind of work do you do?
Daniel Bienvenu: I have a coleco related hardware project in the way. but nothing big
Dale: I started a robot company with two partners 3 years ago. I am the CTO.
Rob Bairos: I do some tiny projects with PIC microcontrollers occassionally at home.
Daniel Bienvenu: what about GAL?
Dale: So I manage the engineers basically. But my degree is in Mathematics.
Rob Bairos: no, never GAL
Rob Bairos: From waterloo?
Dale: Yes, from Waterloo.
Dale: I've done some microcontroller work, and some FPGA work there.
Rob Bairos: me too. graduated in 96
Dale: As did I.
Dale: I started in 1990 though.
Rob Bairos: I took an extra term myself.
Daniel Bienvenu: I knew it... your approche of a video game project is a mathematic view, with great imagination, but still mathematic.
Dale: Well I was editor of MathNEWS and that meant I had to drop some course, so I needed to take extra courses later.
Rob Bairos: I slacked off quite a bit in my third year...
Rob Bairos: But luckily one extra term did the trick.
Dale: Hmm...I wonder if I was off stream from you. It seems almost like I should know you.
Dale: I spent a lot of time in the CSC, and I was a mathsoc rep for my last two years.
moved to room Meeting Place
Rob Bairos: Well I was in Village 2 in 1990, and was mostly absent from many math social circles except for the friends I made in residence.
sorry I've messes up with the browser (daniel here)
left chat session
Dale: You are forgiven Daniel. :-)
Rob Bairos: were you in residence in 1990?
Dale: I lived off campus the whole time.
Dale: So I missed that whole res thing.
Daniel Bienvenu: I'm trying to check for the link to minigames cartridge then the space to type the url automatically change to the chat applet link
Dale: But I knew people in V2 in 1990.
Rob Bairos: thats probably a factor in why you were social in the math scene. I tended to stick to residence
Rob Bairos: who did you know in V2 ?
Dale: Let's see. My closest friend from 1990 V2 would have been Victor Wiewiorowski.
Rob Bairos: Victor... Black hair, tallish?
Dale: For sure.
Rob Bairos: I know thats vague, but he sounds familiar
Rob Bairos: Danny Brown?
Rob Bairos: Im assuming he was well known. He lived in my hall.
Dale: A recent picture of him: http://japagaijin.com/ the one with him looking up.
Dale: I remember Danny Brown, for sure.
Dale: He was a good guy.
Rob Bairos: Our claim to fame was hitting Danny Brown with a cab.
Rob Bairos: It was extremely slow speed, outside Fed Hall.
Rob Bairos: we were all a little stunned
Dale: lol
Rob Bairos: which pic in japag.. should I be looking at?
Dale: never the same pic twice...:-(
Rob Bairos: perhaps the one with the cookie eyes.
Rob Bairos: Remember Paul Estey? Mark Bonnicci? Derek Van Patter?
Dale: http://japagaijin.com/pictures/_images/tokyo/misc/body_image/KIF_0026.JPG
Dale: Nope. Were you in stream 4 or stream 8?
Rob Bairos: yah thats looks familiar
Rob Bairos: i was in stream 8. I switched to coop after a couple months.
Dale: and you started in 1990 or 1989?
Rob Bairos: I think 1990.
Rob Bairos: Yah
Daniel Bienvenu: midnight already... goodnight Rob and Dale!
Dale: Goodnight Daniel.
Dale: So we were in the same stream.
Rob Bairos: goodnight Daniel
Dale: We surely had some classes together.
Daniel Bienvenu: Please Rob, come back next week to meet even more people here.
Rob Bairos: We probably did. I missed quite a bit of class first year though. Residence life was very distracting
Rob Bairos: I'll try Daniel !
Daniel Bienvenu: take care! bye!
Daniel Bienvenu left chat session
Rob Bairos: My first computer classes were with a female professor in a large hall.
Rob Bairos: I switched to CS EEE for most of my time at waterloo
Rob Bairos: I really didnt participate much in my classes at Waterloo.
Rob Bairos: which I regret somewhat
Dale: Well I took CS m2, and algebra/calculus for pure mathies.
Dale: So I didn't take the regular versions of anything in first year.
Rob Bairos: You were in a whole other league from my perspective.
Rob Bairos: I never enjoyed the transition from a big fish in a little pond to Waterloo.
Rob Bairos: Did you attend Shad?
Dale: Not me.
Rob Bairos: I attended Waterloo 89.
Rob Bairos: Well I should probably sign off, but it was nice talking to both you and Daniel. And fascinating that I ended up talking to someone I shared classes with
Rob Bairos: Who also owned some of the books I cherished as a kid.
Dale: For sure.
Dale: Well hopefully we'll see you again.
Rob Bairos: Sounds great. Take care Dale.
Dale: And maybe you'd consider coming to AdamCon in Montreal next summer.
Rob Bairos: Its in Montreal?
Dale: AdamCon 22. We don't have the date nailed down but it'll be in late June or maybe July.
Rob Bairos: Maybe I could swing that with my wife.
Dale: 4 days of Coleco Adam bliss with fellow users.
Rob Bairos: That would be a tough sell! But I think I could probably swing a day or so, then do some funtivities with her.
Dale: Well wives are encouraged to attend, and usually go off shopping together for parts.
Rob Bairos: lol
Dale: And usually we have a group outing on Saturday afternoon.
Rob Bairos: Well I'll keep it in mind.
Dale: So there is a mixture of things going on.
Rob Bairos: Cool.
Rob Bairos: Talk to you again, soon.
Dale: Anyway I wish you a good night, and hope to see you soon.
Dale: bye now.
Rob Bairos: Thanks, you too. nite.
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AdamCon.org > chat > Thu 2009-08-27
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